HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutesCITY OF OSHKOSH LANDMARKS COMMISSION
Minutes
September 13, 2017
PRESENT: Steve Cummings, Shirley Brabender Mattox, Paul Arnold, Harold Buchholz, Austin
Frederick, Elizabeth Hintz, Jake Krause, Jim Hoffman, Steven Wiley, Lorrie Heinemann,
Chet Wesenberg, Joshua Ranger
EXCUSED: Angela Allen
ABSENT: None
1. Call to Order
Chair Brabender Mattox called the meeting to order at 3:02 p.m. and a quorum was declared present.
2. Approval of August 9, 2017 Meeting Minutes
The Commission discussed the August 9, 2017 minutes and Mr: Buchholz mentioned Item 6. “Mr:
Buchholz noted that under the historic preservation ordinance, no mention of local landmarking was
made and he wanted to point this out:” Mr: Buchholz clarified that the word “local” was not a word
used in the Historic Preservation ordinance when the ordinance mentions Landmarking. He explained
that this was not necessarily a change but that he wanted this to be clear that the ordinance does not use
the word “local” when describing Landmarking. Mr. Arnold had a question regarding Item 6 also, where
the minutes state that, “Mr: Buchholz stated that the Commission could approach Mr: Lyster but that
Mr: Lyster would have to help with doing the research as the property owner:” Mr: Arnold asked if this
was precedent for property owners seeking to Landmark their properties. He asked if this was written
or understood. Mr. Buchholz explained that the Commission now has the new form for Landmarking
and that as part of the process the owner would provide some information early on and that the goal for
the Commission is that the property owner would take ownership over some of the process by
contributing research effort. After discussion Mr. Buchholz moved and Mr. Cummings seconded for
approval of the minutes. The motion carried 5-0.
3. 1249 Merritt Avenue – Historic Carriage Style Garage - Discussion
Ms. Heinemann introduced herself as the applicant and owner of 1249 Merritt Avenue. She explained
that she had purchased the property and the next door property of 1243 Merritt Avenue. She talked
about how she had bought the house at auction after a foreclosure and now has a pastor and his family
living at 1243 Merritt Avenue. Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned historic tax credits. Mr. Cummings
explained that for his home, it took an hour to do the paperwork and that Mark Buechel worked with
him during the process. Mr. Cummings said that he had to obtain all the cost estimates for the work
first. Ms. Heinemann asked if the paperwork is submitted to the National Park Service and Mr.
Cummings said that no, the paperwork would go to the State Historic Preservation Office. He
explained that the paperwork consisted of one page. Mr. Cummings mentioned that the Public
Museum had written an article on his home and this helped when he needed information for his tax
credit application. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the Public Library is a good place to do research
for a project such as this. Mr. Cummings asked if the siding on the current garage was original. Ms.
Heinemann stated that it was not. Mr. Arnold asked if her house was in an historic district. Ms.
Brabender Mattox stated that yes, it was in the Washington Avenue Historic District. Ms. Brabender
Mattox asked Ms. Heinemann to tell the Commission about the proposed plans for the garage. Ms.
Heinemann stated that she had talked to 2 builders during a multiple month process. She explained
that multiple neighbors have carriage style garages. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that there were
10 such garages within 2 blocks of Ms: Heinemann’s property: Ms: Heinemann mentioned that she
would put the garage in and get rid of the storage units her family was currently renting. She wanted
upper storage in the proposed garage. The existing garage was in poor condition, and very wet /
rotted. Ms. Heinemann stated that she wanted to use the garage and was not going to put up a modern
2 car garage in an historic area. Ms. Hintz asked if Ms. Heinemann had contacted D&J Construction.
Ms. Heinemann stated that she had not contacted D&J but that she had contacted Laib Restoration. Mr.
Krause arrived at 3:18 pm. A mention was made that many houses on Washington Avenue have also
had carriage garages. Ms. Heinemann stated that she was looking at a maximum $50,000 budget. Mr.
Buchholz stated that for a new garage he did not believe the garage would be eligible for tax credits
because it would be new construction and not work for an existing structure. Mr. Cummings asked
Mr. Wiley if zoning would be an issue for this project. Mr. Wiley stated that in the past, staff had run
similar proposals through Landmarks for Landmarks approval and then to the Board of Appeals for
review. Staff would note that the project had the approval and support of the Landmarks Commission
which would weigh into the Board of Appeals decision. Mr. Wiley stated that this project would not
go through the Plan Commission because it is not a design standards variance. It would be a zoning
code variance and therefore go to the Board of Appeals. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Ms. Heinemann
if she knew what materials she was planning to use for the garage. Ms. Heinemann stated that she had
not gotten that far yet and that she wants to do further research, create further plans, and revisit the
Commission. The Commission was not holding her up in her opinion. Mr. Arnold liked the idea of
making the garage deeper on the site rather than wider. He mentioned that Ms. Heinemann had much
depth (365’ of overall lot depth) to play with: Ms: Heinemann stated that she appreciated the
Commission and Mr. Wiley working with her on the project.
5. Mike Lyster – Potential Landmarking of His Property - Discussion
Mr. Wiley explained that he and Mr. Lyster had been in contact and were originally scheduled to meet
the previous Friday to discuss the preliminary steps in the Landmarking process before bringing the
application to the Commission for review. Mr. Lyster had called Mr. Wiley and was unable to make
the meeting due to other commitments so was hoping to reschedule. Mr. Wiley stated that he was
working with Mr. Lyster in order to reschedule the meeting. This item was then tabled for future
discussion.
6. Historic Plaque – 1703 Michigan Street - Action
Mr. Arnold began discussion by stating that he thought the house had changed owners. He thought
that the current owners understood how the house in question should look and that he had confirmed
that the house was built for Harry Meyer. Mr. Buchholz showed images of the house and stated that he
thought it was a cute bungalow. Ms. Brabender Mattox agreed with Mr. Buchholz. Mr. Buchholz
stated that the home reminded him of Greene and Greene homes in California. Mr. Arnold stated that
the left pier of the home had sunk previously and was repaired but still visible in the photos. Mr.
Krause stated that this home and others in the area were important ones to recognize. Mr. Arnold
mentioned that he noticed 3 Empire style homes along the street in the area. Ms. Brabender Mattox
asked if the owners had decided on a title for the plaque. Mr. Wiley explained that this had not
occurred yet and that he was looking for a vote from the Commission to move forward with the
process. Following that, the owner would decide on a name. Mr. Arnold described the features and
woodwork of the home, and Mr. Cummings stated that there were quite nice homes on the South Side.
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that often a nice brick home was on the corner on the South Side. Mr.
Buchholz asked if the material above the windows on the house was stone and stated that he had not
seen that before. Mr. Arnold stated that yes, the material was likely stone and served as lintels to
support the brick. Mr. Cummings made a motion to proceed with the historic plaque process and Mr.
Krause seconded. The motion carried 6-0.
9. Building Permit Review
The Commission discussed the list of Historic Permits. Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned emailing Mr.
Wiley regarding the Courthouse and asked what changes were included in the work proposed. Mr.
Frederick explained the proposed modifications to each of the floors. Ms. Brabender Mattox and Mr.
Frederick discussed whether the Landmarks Commission could request that the County come to
Landmark meetings. Mr. Frederick asked what would happen if the County disregarded the state. Mr.
Buchholz explained that he thought this would apply if the financing involved tax credits.
Commissioners discussed that the state assessed the windows on the Courthouse and the cost of
replacement. Mr. Frederick stated that the window work was imminent. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated
that she might approach the state and say that more help is needed with the Courthouse project. Mr.
Buchholz asked about the timeframe and Mr. Frederick explained that the renovation side was slated to
begin in late October or early November of 2017. For 409 Union Avenue, Mr. Wiley explained that the
late fee was likely there because the owner had not pulled a permit before doing the work. Mr.
Buchholz asked if the City had design standards for historic districts and where they would apply. Mr.
Wiley explained that the City did not yet have special design standards for historic properties but that
the Zoning Ordinance did include design standards for railings facing the street and visible from the
street. Mr. Wiley explained that railings had to be consistent with the original structure and had to
have top and bottom rails, spindles, balusters, etc. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked about 570 North Main
and the patio and fencing that the owners had proposed there. Mr. Wiley displayed the architectural
sheets and later found out that the material of the fencing was cedar. For 1031 Washington Avenue Mr.
Buchholz explained that this was just one example but that in many cases the work was already done
before the Commission had a chance to review it. Mr. Krause stated that the property was his next
door neighbor’s and he explained what was done: Ms: Brabender Mattox asked about the interior door
replacements for 630 Amherst Avenue and when 20 minute fire-rated doors were used. Mr. Buchholz
stated that this was based on occupancy.
4. Chet Wesenberg – Granary Update – Discussion / Action
Mr. Wesenberg arrived at 4:04 pm and explained the Blue Door Consulting sign. He mentioned that
the sign was supported by an ornamental metal bracket: A “welcome what’s next” sign of 3
dimensional cut letters was set up from the stone façade. Ms. Hintz asked how long the lease was and
Mr. Wesenberg said that the lease was for 5 years. Mr. Krause thought that the sign was
disproportional. The Blue Door portion was small and he thought it should be bigger. He explained
that the “welcome what’s next” sign seemed big. Mr. Arnold stated that it was like the tenant was
assuming that people knew who they were. He stated that younger people might but older folks might
not know who Blue Door was. Ms. Hintz asked Mr. Wesenberg what the font type was in the sign and
he stated that it was similar to Arial. Mr. Buchholz asked if it was appropriate to put a tagline on such
a building. Mr. Arnold asked how the letters would be attached and posed the question of how easy it
would be to remove them. Mr. Wesenberg stated that the letters would be anchored into the masonry.
Ms. Hintz stated that aesthetically the signage did not mesh. Mr. Wesenberg stated that originally he
had asked the tenant about calling the building The Granary on the signage there. Ms. Brabender
Mattox asked about the possibility of calling it the HP Schmidt Milling Company. Mr. Wesenberg
explained that the tenant wanted to distinguish themselves form the brew pub. Mr. Buchholz stated
that he shivered at the signage proposed and Mr. Cummings said that visually the signage did not
work. Mr. Arnold explained that the building to the east had left up HP Schmidt Milling signage. He
stated that the “welcome what’s next” signage was undignified on a building of this one’s age: Mr:
Wesenberg stated that the signage proposed on the West elevation was actual doors configured to
suggest arrows pointing towards a door. Ms. Hintz stated that the signage was not as offensive as the
front signage just discussed. She thought the signage was clever and aesthetically modern. Mr.
Wesenberg explained that on the Brew Pub side which was corrugated metal, the sign could wrap the
curves. The lettering was proposed as almost black. Mr. Krause asked whether there was lighting
proposed. Mr. Wesenberg explained that there were goose neck lights above the signage. Mr.
Buchholz asked for clarification of the middle building. Mr. Wesenberg explained that the building
was grey and not terra cotta. Mr. Wesenberg talked about the canopy covering the front door of the
brew pub. Mr. Arnold asked about the building across the street to the south of the stone building and
what it was. Mr. Wesenberg explained that the building was the office of Lang Development. Mr.
Buchholz asked if there was any thought of using a checkerboard and Mr. Wesenberg explained that he
was planning to inside. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she hoped Mr. Wesenberg was still
enthusiastic about working on historic buildings. Mr. Buchholz asked if Mr. Wesenberg could relocate
the “welcome what’s next” signage to another location: Mr: Wesenberg said that he would take it back
to the tenant and re-visit Landmarks with the signage proposal.
7. Joshua Ranger from UWO - Discussion
Ms. Brabender Mattox introduced Mr. Ranger who was the Archivist for UW-Oshkosh. Mr. Ranger
explained his role as Archivist and stated that his Archives were a branch of the WI Historical Society
Archives. The Commissioners then introduced themselves and explained their roles on the
Commission. Mr. Ranger mentioned tax rolls and that tax rolls were only part of the research. He
stated that sometimes his archives duplicate their collection with the Public Library. Mr. Arnold asked
where the archives were on campus. Mr. Ranger stated that they were on the third floor of the Polk
Library. Mr. Ranger stated that his archives have circuit and county court case files from 1848-1977
preserved. He explained that the Opera Houses were historically involved in much litigation. Mr.
Buchholz asked how people would approach Mr. Ranger for assistance. Mr. Ranger stated that usually
people would approach him with a question. Mr. Ranger stated that a project he was working on was
WPA property inventories that included commercial and residential properties. Mr. Cummings asked
if the archives had any photos. Mr. Ranger stated that the Historical Society has kept most photos and
very few were with him. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Mr. Ranger worked with students. Mr.
Ranger stated that he worked with History Department interns. Mr. Ranger stated that for interns it
was important that at least 2 out of 6 hours a week were spent with a supervisor. Interns must have a
contact person monitoring them. Mr. Buchholz asked whether Mr. Ranger could help the Commission
establish outreach programs for historic preservation. Mr. Ranger said that he was intrigued and
thought that there might be some audience. Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned Atomic Katz and
original basement beams. Mr. Ranger explained the La Crosse audio tour and that there were QR
codes around town. UW-La Crosse students helped much with the project. Mr. Ranger stated that the
Commission would likely want to start with the history club on campus and AP students who likely
might not have many things to do. He stated that he could help. Mr. Buchholz asked if Mr. Ranger
worked with the Public Library and Mr. Ranger said no. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Mr. Ranger
could help with research for the Granary and he said that he could. He stated that he would likely
have very little from the building perspective. Mr. Ranger said that he will help people but does not do
research for free. He charges a fee for research but the archives are available and open from 9-4
Monday through Friday. Mr. Ranger stated that if there was a consistent need for research he could see
having an intern. Mr. Ranger said that the Commission would need a pitch if they wanted to develop
something with the History Department. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that local landmarking research
was a possibility. Mr. Ranger stated that sometimes things do not get done when student interns are
working on them so that would it the Commission account for this. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if
student interns were paid and Mr. Ranger said not usually. Interns could receive credit or pay
generally. Mr. Cummings stated that the Historic Tourism project involved research which was its
most tedious component. Mr. Ranger gave the Commission his phone number and stated that they
could call him. Mr. Ranger stated that the Commission would have to have a person to check in with
interns and that it could not be him. Discussion concluded and Mr. Krause left at this point.
8. North Main Historic District Marker
The commissioners discussed the work Mr. Frederick and Ms. Brabender Mattox had done on the
write-up for the North Main Historic Marker. Mr. Buchholz thought it was a good general summation
of the district but asked why no mention of Opera House Square was included. He stated that he
would like a mention of Opera House Square. He asked if the cross hatch on the map of the district
delineated historic structures. Commissioners discussed and determined that the cross hatch did show
the historic structures. Mr. Buchholz suggested possibly just showing the boundaries of the historic
district. Mr. Buchholz mentioned that it seemed negative to state in the write-up that Highway 41
“pulled businesses and patrons away from North Main Street:” Mr: Krause concurred and stated that
the write-up for the marker should be fluffy. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the part about
Highway 41 was not true. She mentioned the work LDR had done with the sundial and that their work
impacted the redevelopment of some areas along North Main Street. She mentioned that Opera House
Square’s current configuration was precipitated by fire: Mr: Cummings mentioned that the North
Main Street District has one high rise and Mr. Frederick stated two counting the First National Bank
and Raulf Hotel. Mr. Arnold appreciated the problematic nature of covering on an historic marker the
history of the North Main Street District. Mr. Arnold stated that it was pointless to base the writing on
the marker to the future audiences and that the writing should really address what the Commission
presently thinks is important. Mr. Cummings stated that the block numbers mentioned in the write-up
did not add up and that confirmation of accurate block numbers was important. Mr. Buchholz stated
that maps were essential and Mr. Cummings asked if this marker was strictly Main Street or also the
Library. Mr. Wiley explained that the marker was intended for North Main Street. Mr. Krause asked
what the location of the marker was and Ms. Hintz and Mr. Arnold answered. Mr. Arnold asked if the
marker was to be one-sided or two-sided and Mr. Wiley stated that it was to be one-sided. Ms.
Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Frederick if he would take the draft back and refine it based on the
Commission’s input. Mr. Frederick stated that he would. Mr. Wiley was asked to look for additional
maps for the marker.
10. Education / Outreach Program – Angela Allen - Discussion
This item was laid over until a future meeting.
11. WWI Commemorative Plaque Project - Discussion
This item was laid over until a future meeting because Mr. Frederick and Mr. Cummings did not have
anything to discuss for updates.
12. 2017 – 2018 Goals / Priorities - Discussion
This item was not discussed and was tabled until a future meeting.
13. 2016 – 2017 Annual Report - Discussion
Mr. Wiley explained that the annual report was an important item for the Commission to address. Mr.
Wiley asked what image(s) Commissioners had in mind for the cover photo. Mr. Buchholz mentioned
an image of the Granary project or Washington Building. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Mr.
Buchholz’s house was a possibility: She also mentioned the Chief Oshkosh monument as a potential
suggestion. Mr. Cummings stated that Mr. Wiley should obtain the contact information for the person
at UW-Oshkosh that was assisting with the Chief Oshkosh project. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that
on the “Other Agency Coordination & Assistance” page of the draft, more description could be added
under “WEDC Investment Grant app lications:” For the “Historic Plaque Program” page,
commissioners asked how many plaques were given to property owners during the reporting period.
Mr. Wiley stated that he personally worked on one but could follow up on previous ones.
Commissioners listed the Buckstaff property, Mr: Cummings’ house, and bed and breakfast as others:
Mr. Buchholz asked if the reporting period could change from July-June to January-December. He
agreed to follow up on this with Mr. DeRose at the State Historical Society. Mr. Wiley agreed to
continue work on the draft and bring revisions to the next meeting.
14. Historic Preservation Ordinance Text Amendment (Replace “Certificate of Consistency” with
“Certificate of Appropriateness”) - Action
Mr. Buchholz mentioned that there were two changes the Commission had proposed to the Ordinance.
He stated that he could draft a cover letter and send this with the proposed ordinance changes to Plan
Commission and Council. Ms. Hintz asked regarding local landmarking if a property owner could do
trees. Mr. Cummings asked Mr. Wiley if he could check about landmarking trees. Mr. Buchholz
agreed to write the cover letter and work with Ms. Brabender Mattox on this task.
Mr. Buchholz asked the Commission if he should try to get Mr. DeRose from the State Historical
Society up in November. Mr. Arnold stated that he personally did not have anything to address. The
Commission stated that Mr: Buchholz could try to get on Mr: DeRose’s calendar for November: Ms:
Brabender Mattox also mentioned Mark Buechel and that she wanted landlords to know about historic
tax credits.
15. Commissioner Statements
a. Historic Fish District – Steve Cummings / Austin Frederick
This item was not discussed due to time constraints.
b. Mark Buechel – Seminar on State Tax Credits - Steve Cummings
Mr. Cummings mentioned he would see doing this as a special seminar or workshop that the
Landmarks Commission puts on.
16. Agenda Items for next meeting/statements
Mr. Wiley intended to include Mike Lyster’s home landmarking depending on whether he and Mike
could meet ahead of time, the Annual Report, 2017 – 2018 Goals / Priorities, and the Historic Markers
for the Morgan House and North Main, and the WWI Commemorative Plaque Project.
17. Adjournment
Mr. Frederick made a motion to adjourn and the motion was seconded by Mr. Cummings. Motion
approved unanimously and the meeting adjourned at 5:26 p.m.
Recorded by:
Steven Wiley, Assistant Planner