HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutesPLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
August 17, 2010
PRESENT: David Borsuk, Thomas Fojtik, John Hinz, Tony Palmeri, Kathleen Propp, Kent Monte,
Karl Nollenberger
EXCUSED: Ed Bowen, Jeffrey Thorns, Donna Lohry, Robert Vajgrt
STAFF: Darryn Burich, Director of Planning Services; David Buck, Principal Planner; Jeffrey
Nau, Associate Planner; Deborah Foland, Recording Secretary
Chairperson Fojtik called the meeting to order at 4:00 pm. Roll call was taken and a quorum declared
present.
The minutes of August 3, 2010 were approved as presented. (Nollenberger/Hinz)
Motion by Hinz to move Item VI to the first item on the agenda.
Seconded by Monte. Motion carried 7 -0.
VI. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE ADAPTIVE REUSE OF A TAVERN
LOCATED AT 351 ROSALIA STREET
The applicant is requesting a conditional use permit approval for adaptive reuse of a tavern at their
existing establishment located at 351 Rosalia Street.
Mr. Buck presented the item and explained the definition of adaptive reuse of a structure /property. He
reviewed the site and surrounding area, the existing zoning and land uses in said area, and the history
of the subject site. He stated that the neighborhood tavern has been a legal nonconforming use for the
past 45 years and explained that the request to expand on the nonconforming use was to make the
existing tavern use conforming and allow for an addition of an outdoor concrete patio enclosed by a 6
foot tall fence primarily to be used as a "smoking patio'. He reviewed photos of the site and the
proposed site plan and discussed its consistency with the Comprehensive Plan. He also reviewed the
conditions recommended for this request and stated that he had received several calls from concerned
neighbors regarding this proposal. He reviewed an email that was distributed to Commission members
from Kim Hoeper, 372 Rosalia Street, voicing her concerns regarding this request as it would create
additional noise from patrons outside the tavern which she feels is already an issue with talking loudly
and using foul language late in the evening. He also received a phone call from Susan Jones, who
owns both the property at 346 Rosalia Street and 1339 Winnebago Avenue and has resided in this
neighborhood for 33 years. She also had concerns with noise issues from the tavern and did not feel
this use should be allowed to expand as it would negatively impact the residential property values in
this area.
Mr. Hinz questioned if the City had local ordinances regulating outdoor consumption of alcohol and if
this request was approved, if it would be setting a precedent with these situations.
Mr. Buck responded that the liquor license for the establishment would have to be amended to allow
for the consumption of alcohol outside of the tavern.
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010
Mr. Burich added that each situation would have to be considered on a separate basis as circumstances
could differ from one location to another and in some cases could create a negative impact on
neighboring properties which is why these are being considered through CUP.
Mr. Palmeri commented that there were quite a few neighborhood taverns in Oshkosh and questioned
if any other establishments have these types of outdoor patios.
Mr. Burich replied that there are several other taverns in Oshkosh with outdoor patios although he
could not quote an exact number of how many were currently in existence and what there zoning status
was.
Mr. Palmeri inquired if staff believed that the approval of this expansion of a nonconforming use
would negatively affect property values in this neighborhood.
Mr. Buck responded that the tavern use already existed in the neighborhood and he did not feel that the
addition of an outdoor smoking patio would be that significant as patrons were already outside and the
location of an established area would be enclosed with screening in place to help alleviate noise issues.
Mr. Monte questioned if the City enforces a noise ordinance which would provide other avenues for
residents if noise issues got out of hand.
Mr. Burich responded that it did and he believed the ordinance was in effect at 10:00 pm.
Mr. Nollenberger commented that with the smoking ban in effect, patrons were required to go outside
to smoke and he could not think of any alternatives at this time to alleviate the issues with noise that
this situation creates.
Mr. Burich commented that going outside in the yard or on the sidewalk was the only alternatives and
the request today was to create a designated area for this purpose.
Mr. Hinz questioned if music would be broadcast outdoors to the patio area.
Mr. Buck replied that the petitioner stated in their application that the patio was for smoking purposes
only and did not indicate that it would include music or other activities.
Mr. Hinz then inquired if a condition could be added to the request to not permit outdoor music to
alleviate concerns of noise from the neighboring residential property owners.
Mr. Burich responded that a condition could be added to the request to address this issue as amplified
music probably would not be acceptable in this location.
Mr. Hinz also inquired if a roof would be installed on the patio structure.
Mr. Buck replied that a roof was not proposed for the patio at this time however the adaptive reuse
conditional use permit, if approved, would allow for other additions in the future with approval of an
amendment to the CUP.
Mr. Borsuk questioned if the request was to approve the use of the smoking patio only.
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010
Mr. Buck responded that the tavern was a legal nonconforming use so it would be permitted to
continue operating in this residential district regardless of the approval of the conditional use permit.
Mr. Borsuk then questioned if the CUP amendment for future expansion or improvements would
provide added protection for future modifications or other improvements on the site.
Mr. Burich replied that it would and added that a condition could be included with the current request
that no alcohol or food be allowed on the outdoor patio if Commissioners felt it would be appropriate.
Mr. Borsuk also inquired if patios are allowed at other taverns that are a conforming use.
Mr. Burich responded that outdoor patios would be allowed if the tavern has the appropriate zoning
classification for such use and if they have adequate space to meet the necessary setbacks for such
structures.
Sue Ertmer, 348 Rosalia Street, stated that she would like to thank the staff of the Planning Services
division for their assistance in this matter and commented that the noise issue was her primary concern.
She further stated that she has lived at this location since 1966 and has seen numerous taverns come
and go at this location, some good and some bad. When the windows are open, noise is an issue with
the existing use as well as patrons using foul language outside of the tavern. She voiced her concerns
that a large outdoor patio will intensify the current situation and stated that she was not adverse to
Woodchuck's, however this was a family area and she felt that the outdoor patio use could create more
problems. She also commented that she has experienced issues with tavern patrons parking across her
driveway access and numerous cars parked on the street due to the fact that the bar has no off - street
parking area. Trash in the street was also a concern and she felt that other taverns may have outdoor
areas for patrons; however they were not located in an area that was as residential as this one.
John Segura, 1225 Winnebago Avenue, stated that the application indicated that this outdoor patio
would be used primarily as a smoking area and questioned what other things it would be used for once
established. He further stated that he did not agree that the addition of this outdoor area would not
have a negative affect on the surrounding properties or that the use will not change the area. He lives
next door to the tavern and the proposed patio would come very close to his deck and bedroom. He
felt that alcohol would be taken outside and patrons would congregate in this area all night.
Mr. Borsuk asked if someone from Woodchuck's Bar had contacted him to discuss this proposal.
Mr. Segura responded that he did not have any contact from the petitioner and that the only thing he
received was the meeting notice from the City.
Kathryn Larson, 1935 Doemel Street, stated that she was there on behalf of an acquaintance that lived
near the tavern. She commented that she has experienced problems getting in and out of the driveway
due to the numerous cars parking on the street. She did not feel that the nonconforming use should be
allowed to be expanded as it only exists on this site from a historical standpoint and this proposed
expansion would have a huge impact on residential neighbors. She felt that the nonconforming use
should remain as is and commented that there were noise issues currently and that hedges will not be
sufficient to address the matter.
Mary Louise Lewis, 1350 Winnebago Avenue, stated that she has lived at this residence for 50 years
and there has always been a tavern at this location. Her home is located between Woodchuck's Bar
and The Waters which both have patrons frequenting their establishments however events at The
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010
Waters are occasional as compared to the tavern use which is every night. She commented that they
leave the doors open and the noise can be heard at her home a half a block away. She has experienced
noise issues with other establishments such as the Boat Yard and has contacted police with no
response. She was concerned with the proposed outdoor use as she felt that when patrons are
consuming alcohol there will be noise associated with it and does not want to see this request
approved.
Catherine Lindsay, 368 Rosalia Street, stated that since the smoking ban went into effect, there was
more noise associated with the tavern use and at times it was still going on after 2:00 am. She voiced
her concerns that the noise will be increased with an outdoor patio and expressed her empathy with
direct neighbors to the tavern for both noise and smoke fumes from the patrons. She also stated that
she realized that the tavern was a neighborhood tradition; however the behavior of the current patrons
was an issue.
David Peterson, 1217 Winnebago Avenue, stated that he had experienced minor problems with the
tavern use such as the parking issues and noise mentioned previously, however he did not feel that the
addition of an outdoor smoking area would be a good fit. He commented that the Varsity Club has an
outdoor area at its establishment and it can get rather loud and vulgar at times. He felt that the outdoor
patio would encourage patrons to remain outdoors which would not be good for the residential
properties in the area.
Patricia Segura, 1225 Winnebago Avenue, stated that she wished to present a letter from Allen and
Jennifer Newell, 336 Rosalia Street, and a petition signed by five neighboring properties, both
objecting to the proposed outdoor patio. Both the letter and petition brought up previously heard
concerns regarding excessive noise, trash, and foul language all with the anticipation that these issues
will be more prevalent with patrons in an outdoor patio area.
Sherry Krueger, Woodchuck's Bar and Grill, 351 Rosalia Street, stated that they were attempting to get
patrons off of the street and into the yard with their proposal for an outdoor patio. Currently patrons
are out on the sidewalk and they feel that it would be less disturbing to neighbors to have them located
in the backyard of the tavern. She further commented that they do not serve food after 10:00 pm and
there was no intention of food or music to be permitted outside. The outdoor patio was for smoking
purposes only.
Mr. Fojtik inquired if they met with neighbors regarding their request prior to today's meeting.
Ms. Krueger responded that they did not have a formal meeting but they did speak with many
neighbors that stopped in the tavern about the request.
Mr. Hinz questioned if a roof would be planned for the patio.
Ms. Krueger replied that City staff told them that they could not include a roof on the patio and that
they desired to create more of a shelter -type of structure initially.
Mr. Burich stated that the shelter -type structure may not meet the intent of the new smoking rules and
may also have building codes issues.
Mr. Buck added that the regulations regarding the types of structures that could still permit smoking
were maintained by the State and that from a zoning standpoint, required setbacks had to be satisfied.
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010
Ms. Krueger commented that the Site Plan Review Committee suggested the outdoor patio and that
they were told at that meeting that the zoning of the property was the issue.
Ms. Ertmer questioned if serving alcohol outside would be an issue.
Ms. Krueger stated that they were told that patrons would be allowed to take drinks outside if they
created an enclosed area for this purpose.
Ms. Propp stated that she felt the outdoor use was unacceptable particularly for the residents at 1225
Winnebago Avenue which would be directly adjacent to the patio area.
Mr. Monte agreed and commented that the smoking ban was implemented for health reasons and
placing a patio with smokers 10 -20 feet from the residence next door contradicts what the smoking ban
was meant to prevent.
Mr. Borsuk commented that he would not be supporting this request as he would like to see how we
address the legal nonconforming issue as the adaptive reuse conditional use permit opens up the ability
for the site to expand its current use.
Mr. Burich stated that the conditions recommended for this request would require the petitioner to
come back through the Plan Commission and Common Council process for any future expansion of
the use on the site.
Mr. Hinz stated that his family has owned a tavern in a residential neighborhood for many years and
some of the concerns brought up by neighbors would be addressed by the creation of the outdoor patio
such as trash and patrons standing on the street. He further stated that the business owner is trying to
stay in business and keep customers off the street and he feels we will see more of these types of
requests with local taverns. He understands the concerns with the neighbor at 1225 Winnebago
Avenue due to their close proximity to the proposed outdoor patio, however it appears that only a
quarter of the residents in the neighborhood have complained about the request so the remaining
residents apparently see the situation differently. He wants to support the business owner's rights and
their request for the patio and proposed that a condition could be added that no music or alcohol be
permitted outside if that would make the request more acceptable.
Mr. Palmeri stated that he contacted the Police Department regarding Woodchuck's reputation in the
community and found that noise was the most prominent issue with the tavern. He found it difficult to
believe that the outdoor patio would create a better situation as far as noise complaints and although
the intentions of the petitioner are understandable, he would not support this request.
Mr. Monte commented that he smokes himself and understands the issue, however to place an outdoor
smoking patio 10 to 15 feet from a residence is not appropriate.
Mr. Fojtik stated that he anticipates we will see more proposals of this type in the future and it
appeared that most of the neighbors in the surrounding area are against this request. He also
commented that he appreciated the appropriate behavior at the meeting as some of these issues can
result in some heated discussion.
Mr. Hinz stated that the location of the patio seemed to be an issue and suggested that the item be laid
over to the next Plan Commission meeting to give the petitioner time to possibly relocate the patio to
an area that would be less objectionable.
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010
Mr. Burich responded that it could provide time for the petitioner and neighbors to discuss the issue
and possibly find an acceptable alternative.
Mr. Borsuk commented that the item would still be going before the Common Council so there would
be an opportunity to address a change in the site plan at that level.
Motion by Nollenberger to deny the conditional use permit for the adaptive reuse of a tavern
located at 351 Rosalia Street with the following conditions:
1) A minimum of a 6 foot tall solid fence is placed around any outdoor use of the site.
2) A year -round vegetative screen is placed on all sides of the outdoor use.
3) Further expansion of the use requires Conditional Use Permit amendment.
Seconded by Monte. Motion carried 6 -1. ( Ayes- Borsuk/Fojtik /Palmeri /Propp/Monte/
Nollenberger. Nays- Hinz.)
L RIGHT -O&WAY DEDICATION AT 732 -742 WITZEL AVENUE
The City is requesting a right -of -way dedication of a seven -foot by 318.80 -foot, 2,231.60 square foot
parcel located on the north side of Witzel Avenue adjacent to and south of 732 -742 Witzel Avenue.
Mr. Nau presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area. He stated that the owner had
submitted a certified survey map to reconfigure the lot lines of the two parcels to accommodate a new
renewable energy plant; therefore the City was taking the opportunity to have the right -of -way
increased. Witzel Avenue currently has 66 feet of right -of -way whereas minor arterials are
recommended to have 80 feet of right -of -way per Subdivision Regulations. He also reviewed the
certified survey map for this site.
Mr. Nollenberger questioned if the property owner had approved of the additional right -of -way
dedication.
Mr. Nau responded that no concerns had been expressed from the property owner at this time.
Mr. Burich added that the matter was discussed with the property owner at the time the certified survey
map was submitted for approval so they are aware of the action and do not have any objections.
Ms. Propp inquired if this was done when the University created the facilities building recently.
Mr. Nau replied that it was not as no certified survey map was involved with that request however it
has been done on numerous other occasions in the past.
Mr. Burich added that the Comprehensive Plan has recommendations for street widths and anytime a
certified survey map is submitted, these right -of -way dedications are adjusted accordingly.
Motion by Nollenberger to approve the right -of -way dedication at 732 -742 Witzel Avenue as
requested.
Seconded by Borsuk. Motion carried 7 -0.
II. DECLUTE ANNEXATION
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010
The petitioners are proposing direct annexation (by unanimous approval) of approximately 0.243 acres
of land currently located in the Town of Oshkosh.
Mr. Nau presented the item and reviewed the site, surrounding area, and existing land uses in said area.
He stated that the owner was requesting the property located at 2814 Shorewood Drive be annexed
with an R -1 Single Family Residence District zoning classification. He also commented that the
Oshkosh Fire and Police Departments had reviewed the request and did not have any concerns with
providing services to this property and the Department of Public Works had also reviewed it and
estimates that sanitary and water services could be extended to this property and have been included in
the 2010 Capital Improvement Program.
There was no discussion on this item.
Motion by Propp to approve the DeClute Annexation with temporary and permanent zoning of
R -1 Single Family Residence District as requested.
Seconded by Borsuk. Motion carried 7 -0.
III. RIGHT- OF-WAY VACATION OF A PORTION OF OSCEOLA STREET LYING
SOUTHWEST OF PEARL AVENUE
The applicant requests vacation of Osceola Street right -of -way from Pearl Avenue southwest 230 feet
to the street terminus.
Mr. Buck presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area, the current zoning
classifications and land uses in said area and explained that this request is in conjunction with a request
for a land disposition that will be discussed next on the agenda. He stated that all the property
surrounding the street vacation request consists of University related uses other than the former Deltox
property which is the land disposition to be considered next. The area of Osceola Street included in
the vacation request is almost exclusively used as access to the University Wellness Center and
parking lot parcels and the vacation of said area would relieve the City of the responsibility of
maintaining the existing street. Staff is recommending that the University owned parcels at 75 Osceola
Street and 783 Pearl Avenue be combined if this right -of -way vacation is approved as the parcel on
Osceola Street will no longer possess right -of -way frontage. Utility and access easements will also
need to be placed on the entire vacation area and 44 feet of the Osceola right -of -way will need to be
retained for future reconstruction and redesign of Pearl Avenue. He also reviewed the University's
Master Plan, photos of the site, and conditions recommended for this request.
Tom Sonnleitner, University of Wisconsin - Oshkosh, 800 Algoma Boulevard, stated that this was part
of the University's Master Plan for the development of the campus which requires everything to be laid
out and that all the abutting properties are currently part of the University.
There was no discussion on this item.
Motion by Nollenberger to approve the right -of -way vacation of a portion of Osceola Street as
requested with the following conditions:
1. Combination of parcel 01- 0469 -0000 (75 Osceola) and parcel 01- 0467 -0000 (783 Pearl).
2. Utility and access easement is placed on the entire vacation area for any existing
utilities /structures as well as access to adjoining lots.
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010
Seconded by Monte. Motion carried 7 -0.
IV. LAND DISPOSITION — FORMER DELTOX PROPERTY ALONG WISCONSIN
STREET ADJACENT TO CARL E. STEIGER PARK
City of Oshkosh Administration is requesting to dispose of the 3.4 acre former Deltox property along
Wisconsin Street to the University of Wisconsin - Oshkosh for inclusion into the campus.
Mr. Burich presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area. He explained that the
subject site is a portion of the former Deltox Rug Company property which the City acquired in 1983
and used a portion of to create Carl E. Steiger Park. The remaining area had retained one of the old
manufacturing buildings which the City had leased out for a number of years ending in 2007 and the
building was subsequently demolished and the land is now vacant. The City is proposing to sell the
land to the University of Wisconsin - Oshkosh to implement their Master Plan which is consistent with
the Comprehensive Land Use Plan for the area. He reviewed the University's concept plan for the site
and stated that any use will come back before the Plan Commission and Common Council for
conditional use permit /planned development approval.
Ms. Propp questioned if the land disposition was with the intent to sell the property to the University.
Mr. Burich responded affirmatively and stated that the price was still being negotiated at this time.
Motion by Borsuk to approve the proposed land disposition of property located along
Wisconsin Street adjacent to Carl Steiger Park as requested.
Seconded by Monte. Motion carried 6 -0 -1. (Fojtik abstained as he is employed by the
University and involved with this project.)
V. DEVELOPMENT PLAN REVIEW FOR OFF - PREMISE SIGNAGE AT 1600 S.
KOELLER STREET FOR AN EXISTING COMMERCIAL SITE AT 1640 S.
KOELLER STREET
The applicant is requesting a development plan review and approval to allow signage on an existing
off - premise two -pole pylon sign.
Mr. Nau presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area. He explained that Habitat for
Humanity of Oshkosh is proposing to open a Habitat ReStore and move their affiliate offices to 1640
S. Koeller Street. They are requesting off - premise signage to be co- located with the existing two -pole
pylon sign located at the WG &R property at 1600 S. Koeller as their site possesses no right -of -way
frontage and a sign placed on the site would not be visible. The proposed sign would be added to the
existing cabinet and will not reduce ground clearance as the existing cabinets will be condensed to fit
within the existing sign area and WG &R is supportive of this request. He further stated that the City
promotes the use of multi- tenant signage as they reduce the clutter of numerous signs along corridors.
Chet Wesenberg, 3265 Casey Trail, Vice President for Habitat for Humanity, stated he was present if
Commission members had any questions regarding this request.
There was no discussion on this item.
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010
Motion by Nollenberger to approve the development plan for off - premise signage at 1600 S.
Koeller Street as requested.
Seconded by Borsuk. Motion carried 7 -0.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Borsuk stated that at a future meeting he would like to discuss scrolling messages and graphics on
electronic message center signs.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at approximately 5:28 pm. (Nollenberger/
Monte)
Respectfully submitted,
Darryn Burich
Director of Planning Services
Plan Commission Minutes
August 17, 2010