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BOARD OF APPEALS MINUTES
AUGUST 28, 2002
PRESENT: Carl Ameringer, Fred Dahl, Cheryl Hentz, Don Krueger, John Schorse,
EXCUSED: Joel Kluessendorf, Edward Wilusz
STAFF: Matt Tucker, Associate Planner; Mary Lou Degner, Recording Secretary
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Krueger. Roll call was taken and a quorum
declared present.
Regarding the minutes of August 14, 2002, Ms. Hentz asked for clarification on Item V,
1712 Hazel Street, regarding the second condition. She said she would like the minutes to
reflect the statement “that the size of the ramp must remain at the size that it is now.”
Minutes approved. (Hentz/Dahl) Unanimous.
I: 103-123 N. SAWYER STREET
Hans Zietlow, applicant for Kwik Trip, is requesting a variance to construct a building
and parking lot with a 10’ setback to N. Sawyer Street, and a 10’ setback to Witzel
Avenue, and a variance to locate a ground sign with a 10’ setback to Witzel Avenue,
whereas Section 30-35(B)(1)(c) of the City of Oshkosh Zoning Ordinance requires a 25’
front yard setback for buildings, parking facilities, and ground signs.
Hans Zietlow, 1626 Oak Street, La Crosse, Wisconsin, said due to the fact that the City
Council did not vote in favor of their rezoning request at the meeting of August 27, 2002,
they propose to lay the item over until the Board of Appeals meeting of September 25,
2002.
Motion by Dahl to lay over the variance request to construct a building and parking
lot with a 10’ setback to N. Sawyer Street, and a 10’ setback to Witzel Avenue, and a
variance to locate a ground sign with a 10’ setback to Witzel Avenue, until the
meeting of September 25, 2002. Seconded by Schorse. Motion approved 4-0.
Present: Hentz.
II: 1050 WITZEL AVENUE
Russell J. Reff, applicant, and Hurley Properties, LLC, owner, are requesting a variance
to construct an off-street parking area with a 5’ front yard setback to Witzel Avenue, and
a reduction in the number of required parking spaces to 25 for the proposed mixed use
development, whereas Section 30-35(B)(1)(c) of the City of Oshkosh Zoning Ordinance
requires a 25’ front yard setback and Section 30-36(A)(ii) of the City of Oshkosh Zoning
Ordinance requires 31 parking spaces.
Matt Tucker introduced the item with photos. He explained the change from the last
application, of June 12, 2002, is that the proposal now offers a more functional parking
lot.
Attorney Russ Reff, 217 Ceape Avenue, introduced himself as being the representative
for Hurley Properties. He explained the background of the property stating his clients
acquired the property in August of 2000 and have since been making improvements and
upgrades to the property. He noted the office space area has been vacant for over a year
and noted the Hurleys have concluded that a laundromat facility would be a viable and
needed use for this property. Attorney Reff said the physical
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August 28, 2002
constraints of this property make it difficult to comply with the current zoning
requirements. He mentioned the previous site plan was rejected because of concerns of
parking and vehicular conflicts and added since that time they have met with Norbert
Salzsieder, an adjacent property owner, a professional planner, and staff to look at
various parking arrangements. Attorney Reff said a driveway has now been proposed
between the building and the creek to allow vehicles to travel along the east side of the
building, and an agreement has been reached with Mr. Salzsieder that the southerly 6’ of
his property and the northerly 6’ of the subject property will be used for vehicle
maneuvering purposes. He noted eventually this area would be paved. Attorney Reff said,
in his opinion, the current site plan is a tremendous improvement. He said concerning the
variance of parking in the setback, the property is zoned M-2, and the only reason a
variance is necessary is because there is a residence across Witzel Avenue, which
subjects this property to the transitional setback requirements. Attorney Reff stated he
would like to emphasize that there will not be additional paving in the front of the
building and they are not eliminating green space, they are just using the existing asphalt,
essentially what was driving area now becomes parking area. He said there would
actually be additional landscaping added in the area, as a result of a condition placed on
the variance by recommendation of City staff. Attorney Reff said regarding the request
for a reduction in the number of parking spaces, it is allowed under the ordinance. He
stated the City has no special standards for parking for coin laundrys and noted other
municipalities generally have standards based upon the number of machines in the
building and the industry has a standard of 1 parking space to 3 to 5 machines. He stated
the total parking spaces required for a coin laundry standard would be 18 to 22 parking
spaces and they have proposed 25 functional parking spaces on the current site plan.
Attorney Reff noted that before a building permit could be issued they would have to file
and record a cross access agreement, so there would be a legal agreement requiring both
property owners to allow the strip of land to be used jointly for vehicle movement.
Attorney Reff said in summary, he believes it is an appropriate situation for a variance, a
variance is necessary to utilize this property, the constraints of the existing site and the
absence of a separate parking standard for a coin laundry create a legally recognizable
hardship, and the variance would not adversely affect neighboring properties.
Ms. Hentz questioned the issue about the sign, which was discussed at the previous
meeting of June 12, 2002, and asked why the address was previously listed as 1060
Witzel Avenue and is now listed as 1050 Witzel Avenue, she added staff indicated that it
was not a typographical error. Mr. Tucker answered the sign is not considered as part of
this request, and staff has been working on this issue, and Attorney Reff said he did not
have an answer for the address discrepancy. Ms. Hentz also questioned if the proposed
agreement between Mr. Salzsieder and the applicants would be attached to the properties
if they should be sold in the future. Attorney Reff responded that it would stay with the
land and it would be stated that the agreement can not be modified or terminated without
the consent of the City.
Mr. Ameringer asked for clarification on the changes. Attorney Reff presented a larger
site plan of the redesign for the subject property and explained the proposed changes.
During board discussion Ms. Hentz stated it was a better plan than what had previously
been presented and she would support the variance request. Mr. Ameringer said he did
not have a problem with the reduction in parking spaces for laundromat purposes, but he
did have a concern about the 5’ setback if the need was for only 3 parking spaces and if
elimination of these parking spaces would also be compliant with the parking standards
in other areas. Mr. Ameringer said he liked the idea for additional space for turn around
and the landscaping factor. Mr. Tucker responded that the applicants wish to provide as
much parking space as possible in a safe and efficient manner. He noted that it is a
mixed-use property and there is the future possibility that the use could change, and that
the parking spaces in the transitional yard setback would probably be the least used
spaces, considering their proximity to the
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August 28, 2002
building. Chairman Krueger said he also had a concern about infringing upon the setback
for 3 additional parking spaces, but because the property is zoned M-2, which would
allow parking with a 0’ setback, and because future use of the property is an unknown he
would support the variance request. Chairman Krueger said he would like to add a
condition to the variance request reflecting the cross access agreement between the
applicants and Mr. Salzsieder.
Motion by Hentz to approve the variance request to construct an off-street parking
area with a 5’ front yard setback to Witzel Avenue, and a reduction in the number
of required parking spaces to 25 for the proposed mixed development with the
following conditions:
1)A landscaping plan be submitted and approved, by the Department
of Community Development, prior to obtaining a building permit,
depicting landscaping treatments along the Witzel Avenue frontage of
the subject property.
2)A cross access easement be reviewed and approved by the City
Attorney and recorded at the Winnebago County Register of Deeds
for the ingress and egress on the north side of the lot and the southern
portion of the adjacent property.
Seconded by Dahl. Motion approved 5-0. Unanimous.
Finding of the fact: It was concluded that the hardship is a lack of an ordinance
regarding parking spaces for a coin laundry, the number of parking
spaces is enough to satisfy the area, it would clean up the site, it is
an unusual configuration for ingress and egress, and the applicants
have no possibility of acquiring more land.
III: 2843 STONEY BEACH LANE
David A. Prieto, applicant and owner, is requesting a variance to expand the width of an
existing driveway by 7’, which will result in the driveway being wider than the garage,
whereas Section 30-36(C)(5) of the City of Oshkosh Zoning Ordinance requires
driveways to be no wider than the garage.
Matt Tucker introduced the item.
David Prieto, 2843 Stoney Beach Lane, said he would like to have his original variance
approved, rather than the recommendation by staff, or to reach a compromise that allows
more parking on the north side of the property. He presented plans with photos, of 3
various alternatives to his variance request.(Said plans on file in the Department of
Community Development) Mr. Prieto said he has occupied the house for 8 years and he
takes pride in the aesthetics of his property. He said to accommodate staff’s
recommendation he would need to relocate a spruce tree and the placement of his vehicle
in the driveway would also interfere with views from the house window. Mr. Prieto said
his present driveway is in need of repairs and his desire is to expand the driveway to the
north. He stated the area to the north is the common ground between two houses and has
low activity. He added the adjacent neighbor’s driveway is on their north side also.
Mr. Schorse questioned the distance between the garage and the side lot line property.
Mr. Prieto answered it would be about 7’ to 8’. Discussion continued on the shape of the
subject property, the number of vehicles and whether screening would be necessary. Mr.
Tucker explained that screening is required for uncovered off-street parking facilities that
are not in a driveway.
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August 28, 2002
Board discussion continued on the options presented and the footage necessary to
accommodate the situation. Chairman Krueger and Mr. Ameringer said they were
concerned about the issue of hardship.
Mr. Ameringer stated that the applicant’s objection to expanding to the south is that it
would obstruct his view, but if expanded to the north then it obstructs the neighbor’s
view. Discussion continued on the options of expansion to both the north and the south.
Motion by Hentz to approve the variance to expand the width of the existing 14’
driveway to a maximum of 20’, which would result in an expansion of 4’ to the south
and 2’ to the north. Seconded by Dahl. Motion approved 5-0. Unanimous.
Finding of the fact: It was concluded that the position of the house on the lot is
unique in that it does not allow for expansion of the garage, it is
the least variance necessary, and the hardship was not self created.
IV: 1607 HAZEL STREET
Captain Randy Van Ness of the City of Oshkosh Police Department, applicant, and
Timothy J. Zielicke, owner, are requesting a variance to construct a 6’ tall solid fence in
the front yard, with a 0’ front yard setback, whereas Section 30-35(E)(2) of the City of
Oshkosh Zoning Ordinance permits fences less than 4’ tall in the front yard, except
fences that are more than 50% solid shall not be permitted within 15’ of a front lot line.
Matt Tucker introduced the item with photos.
Timothy Zielicke, 1607 Hazel Street, and Police Chief David Erickson, 420 Jackson
Street, introduced themselves. Officer Zielicke said the requested enclosed site allows for
a shaded area, which would increase activity for the dog, and furthermore, this area with
large shrubs, provides excellent training opportunities in regard to hiding suspects and
practicing drug searches. He added a u-shaped training configuration is important in the
training of wind drift and scenting for the dog. Officer Zielicke said he sees no drawback
for the community and the neighbors have no concerns. He stated in his opinion, there
would be no further obstruction of view for pedestrian or vehicular traffic. Officer
Zielicke said the purchased the subject property in May of 2002, knowing he would be a
dog handler, but at the time he was not aware of the setback requirements for a corner lot.
He said a large factor in his choice for the property was the large back yard.
Chief Erickson said the police department supported Officer Zielicke’s application. He
noted one of the critical aspects of any canine unit is the working relationship between
the handler and the dog. He said approval of the variance request would allow daily
training and interaction for the officer and the dog. Chief Erickson added the 6’ high solid
fence would reduce distractions, it would allow for the dog to run free, and it would
screen the area from children traveling to and from Emmeline Cook School. He
proceeded to explain the application process in the selection of canine handlers. He stated
his only involvement was in the review/selection process of the K-9 handler.
Mr. Schorse noted the part of the fence in question was only located along Bent Avenue.
He said the existing dense shrubbery, in his opinion, is not much different than erecting
the proposed fence. He said the hardship is that this is a corner lot, since a 6’ solid fence
would otherwise meet city ordinances. Mr.
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August 28, 2002
Schorse said this issue has come up many times and in the past variances have been
granted for corner lots.
Chairman Krueger asked where the dogs are normally trained.
Chief Erickson answered that introduction and basic training is in Campbellsport,
Wisconsin. He said they are able to return there for refresher courses once or twice a
month, but the main training is at the dog handler’s residence. He further explained how
important continuous training is for the handler and the dog.
Mr. Schorse questioned the location of the neighbor’s driveway, and if the height of the
proposed fence would interfere with the vision triangle.
Mr. Tucker responded that the neighbor’s driveway is about 25’ from the lot line. He
noted shrubs are allowed to be 4’ tall and the existing shrubbery is in violation of the
ordinance. Mr. Tucker said there is no concern involving the vision triangle in regard to
this request.
Ms. Hentz asked if the dog would still be at the residence if the appeal was denied.
Chief Erickson replied this was not a consideration when the assignment of the dog was
approved. He said this would simply limit the opportunities for training.
Discussion continued on the necessity of a 6’ high solid fence. Mr. Tucker commented
that this is a residential property that in effect would be used for an institutional dog
training use. He presented an alternative for the location of the 6’ high solid fence.
Discussion continued on this possibility.
Ms. Hentz questioned a statement from Officer Zielicke’s application regarding the high
liability risk or civil suit to the City.
Officer Zielicke explained that it referred to the fact that a 4’ tall fence could allow for
the dog to escape the area or for someone to enter the area. He said due to the aggressive
training of the dog there would be a concern of increased liability. He added that a 6’
solid fence would prevent this.
Mr. Dahl said that he would support staff’s suggestion for the alternative location of the
6’ high solid fence, which would not require a variance. He said it basically involves the
same square footage with a different configuration.
Officer Zielicke again mentioned the significance of the u-shape configuration for
training.
During board discussion it was noted that this is a residential area. Chairman Krueger
stated he is appreciative of the training, but he would not support the variance and noted
there are other options. Mr. Schorse said he has no problem with the compromise, but
again reiterated, in his opinion, the hardship is that the property is a corner lot. Discussion
continued on past approvals of fences on corner lots. Ms. Hentz stated she feels the
alternative suggestion is a good choice.
Motion by Hentz to approve a variance to construct a 6’ tall solid fence in the front
yard with a 0’ front yard setback. Seconded by Schorse. Motion denied 1-4. Aye;
Schorse. Nay; Ameringer, Dahl, Hentz, Krueger.
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August 28, 2002
V: 1024 MASON STREET
Gerald and Marjorie Zick, applicants and owners, are requesting a variance to construct a
pool and deck attached to the principal structure, which will result in the principal
structure having a 23’7” rear yard setback, whereas Section 30-17(B)(3)(d) of the City of
Oshkosh Zoning Ordinance requires a 25’ rear yard setback.
Matt Tucker introduced the item with photos.
Gerald and Marjorie Zick, 1024 Mason Street, presented a letter from the Pool Center,
LLC, confirming the fact the pool was not enlarged, it was originally 24’ and was
replaced with a 24’ pool. (Said letter on file in the Department of Community
Development) They also presented letters in support of the variance request from James
th
Youngworth, 1029 Mason Street, and Barbara Richmond, 1246 W. 11 Avenue. (Said
letters on file in the Department of Community Development) Mr. and Mrd. Zick
presented pictures of the pool area.
Mr. Schorse questioned the distance from the pool, to the north lot line. It was noted the
distance is 23’.
Ms. Hentz noted a correction on the dates of the storm being June 11, 2001, not June 11,
2002, as stated in the staff report. She also questioned the date on the letter from the Pool
Center being May 11, 2201. Mrs. Zick explained the walls had started to bow at that time
and that is when they received the quote.
Mr. Tucker noted that the assessor’s office does not actually measure in the field, so the
original pool could have been 24’. Mr. Tucker read the letters for the record, from their
neighbors in support of the variance request.
During board discussion Mr. Schorse said, in his opinion, the hardship was not self
created, the applicants were repairing damage that was caused by nature and it is a fact
that building permits may not have been required 23 years ago, when the pool was first
erected. Ms. Hentz said by the city’s own admission there could have been a
misjudgment as far as the actual size of the pool. She stated she would support the
request. Mr. Ameringer said he would also support it because it only involves 1’5”, there
was storm damage, the pool has existed for 23 years, and there are mitigating
circumstances.
Motion by Schorse to approve the variance to construct a pool and deck attached
the principal structure, which will result in the principal structure having a 23’7”
rear yard setback. Seconded by Hentz. Motion approved 5-0. Unanimous.
Finding of the fact: It was concluded the hardship was not self created, the pool was
possibly built before the need for a permit, and there would be no
adverse impact on neighboring properties.
VI: 1008 N. SAWYER STREET & 1150 VAN BUREN AVENUE
James and Nathan Larson, applicants, and Zion Lutheran Church, owner, are requesting
to provide three parking spaces for the proposed duplex within the front yard setback and
front yard area, with a 27’ driveway opening, whereas Section 30-36(A)(4) of the City of
Oshkosh Zoning Ordinance requires no parking in the designated setback areas and
Section 30-36(C)(5)(a) requires uncovered parking spaces to
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August 28, 2002
meet the principal structure setback requirements and Section 30-36(C)(5)(c) requires
maximum driveway width not to exceed 12’ and shall be situated as to not create only a
front yard parking area.
Matt Tucker introduced the item with photos.
Ms. Hentz questioned the site plan, which labeled a building as being an “existing”
condo.
James and Nathan Larson introduced themselves. Mr. James Larson said they have the
opportunity to take a building that has more intensive use and make it comply with what
the actual zoning is for the property. He said they are simply asking to use the same area
for parking that has been utilized for the past 40 years. Mr. Larson presented copies of the
schematic floor plan for the units. He added they would be willing to eliminate 4’ of
concrete to create a landscape buffer for the neighbors to the east.
Discussion continued on the available and proposed parking situation and the possibility
of providing a garage.
Ms. Hentz asked about the rental probabilities. Mr. Larson replied the units would be
rented to the general public.
Reverend Gerald Nerenhausen, 400 N. Sawyer Street, said his intent is to sell the
property to the Larsons, which would allow the property to generate income for the City
through the tax rolls.
During board discussion Mr. Ameringer inquired about alternate locations for the
required parking spaces. Chairman Krueger said they could be located in the middle of
the yard, but that would require the use of existing green space. Mr. Tucker explained the
possible location for a garage. Chairman Krueger said, in his opinion, it makes sense to
leave the existing parking and to provide a landscape buffer. Ms. Hentz said to her, it
makes more sense to have parking closer for unit one. Chairman Krueger explained that
the parking for unit 1 is provided behind the unit. Discussion continued on future
potential parking situations.
Motion by Hentz for approval of the variance to provide three parking spaces for
the proposed duplex within the front yard setback and the front yard area, with a
27’ driveway opening, with the following conditions:
1)If garages should be erected in the future, the parking area to the
east shall be eliminated.
2)The parking area to be shifted 4’ to the west to provide a 4’
landscaping buffer, to be reviewed and approved by the Department
of Community Development.
Seconded by Dahl. Motion approved 5-0. Unanimous.
Finding of the fact: It was concluded that the parking currently exists and by
allowing this to continue the green space would remain and a
buffer created on the east side would reduce the impact for the
neighbors.
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August 28, 2002
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 5:35 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Matt Tucker
Associate Planner
MT/mld