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PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES DECEMBER 7, 2004 PRESENT: Bryan Bain, David Borsuk, Jon Dell’Antonia, Shirley Mattox, Kathleen Propp, Donald Simons, John Weinsheim and W. Lee Bettes, Chairman
EXCUSED: Steve Gehling, Cathy Scherer, and Jeff Thorkildsen STAFF: Darryn Burich, Director of Planning Services, and Vickie Rand, Recording Secretary The meeting was called to order
at 4:00 p.m. by Chairman Bettes. Roll call was taken and a quorum declared present. The minutes of the November 16, 2004 meeting were approved as mailed. (Bain/Simons) Unanimous. I:
CONSENT AGENDA A: ACCEPT EASEMENTS – VARIOUS LOCATIONS 1. Osborn Avenue (Plymouth Congregational Church Property) (Storm) 2. 206 Guenther Street (Storm) 3. Mercy Medical Center (Trail
& Drainage) PLAN COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION: Mr. Bain questioned if easements for items 1 and 2 could not be placed in the streets because of the change in elevation. Mr. Burich stated
the area is an older section of the City that doesn’t provide the final street elevation needed to drain all the parcels. He stated it would be to the surrounding property owner’s advantage
to have the storm sewer catch basin installed on private property. Motion by Dell’Antonia for acceptance of the easements with the following condition for easement #3: 1) The Sawyer
Creek drainage easement is to terminate at the property line along 9th Avenue. Seconded by Weinsheim. Motion carried 8-0. B: EXTRATERRITORIAL 2 LOT LAND DIVISION/CERTIFIED SURVEY MAP
ALONG POBEREZNY ROAD IN THE TOWN OF NEKIMI – McMahon & Associates, petitioner, Gabert and Rusch, owner In order to facilitate the construction of the new Veteran’s Museum, the owners
of the property are proposing a two-lot land division where one of the lots will be donated to the Veterans for development. The request involves one 37 acre property that is split zoned
with the front section along Poberezny Road zoned commercial and the rest zoned agricultural.
Plan Commission Minutes -2-December 7, 2004 Mr. Borsuk questioned if it would make any difference to the parties involved if the Veteran’s Museum didn’t move forward for development.
Mr. Burich stated the land division wouldn’t create any problems for the City if the Museum didn’t move forward since the area would require City sewer and water for future development.
Motion by Bain for approval of an Extraterritorial 2-Lot Land Division along Poberezny Road in the Town of Nekimi. Seconded by Borsuk. Motion carried 8-0. 1) No improvements, fill, or
obstructions of any kind that would impede the flow of surface water be placed within 75 feet on either side of the centerline of the navigable stream. 2) Verify right-of-way width of
not less than 80 feet for frontage road. If less than 80 feet, provide dedication on CSM. C: EXTRATERRITORIAL 3 LOT LAND DIVISION/CERTIFIED SURVEY MAP ALONG COUNTRY CLUB ROAD IN THE
TOWN OF BLACK WOLF – National Survey & Engineering, petitioner, John Pfeiffer, owner The subject parcels (2) of approximately 49 acres are part of the Far Vu Golf Course. The owner of
the golf course would like to create two smaller, approximately 2 acre, lots that will become residential building lots. John Pfeiffer, owner, stated he was available to answer any questions
the Plan Commission may have. Mrs. Propp questioned what the difference was between this land division and the other land divisions that have been denied recently by the Plan Commission.
Mr. Burich explained this request was more typical for an area that is located around a golf course and the other requests were further out with predominant agricultural uses surrounding
them. Mr. Weinsheim stated the 20-year Comprehensive Land Use Plan Map integrates Rural Preservation for the surrounding area and he was concerned with the Plan Commission’s consistency
in their decision making. Mr. Burich stated the recommended land use on the other side of the subject property is residential, and the acreage of the subject property is located in a
recreational area that is small enough to be consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. He stated other land division requests involved large acreage in the midst of rural preservation
areas. Mr. Weinsheim questioned if this meets the infill criteria as well, as he want’s to ensure the message is clear to the petitioner, owner, and viewing public. Mr. Burich stated
this request meets the intent of the infill criteria standard because a set land use pattern has developed. Ms. Mattox noted the lot size of 2 acres and questioned if all lots in the
area would be required to be 2 acres. Mr. Burich stated it wouldn’t be inconsistent with the City’s Comprehensive Plan although, the County may require 5-acre minimum lots. Ms. Mattox
also questioned if there were plans for this area to be brought into the City in the near future. Mr. Burich stated that he didn’t see that occurring in the near future.
Plan Commission Minutes -3-December 7, 2004 Motion by Borsuk for approval of an Extraterritorial 3-Lot Land Division along Country Club Road in the Town of Black Wolf. Seconded by Dell’Antonia.
Motion carried 8-0. II: CONCEPTUAL 14 LOT EXTRATERRITORIAL LAND DIVISION ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE OF C.T. H. K IN THE TOWN OF OMRO – Martenson & Eisele, petitioner, Lee Engelman, owner The
property owner owns two-quarter sections (80 acres) of undeveloped land and is proposing to create fourteen 5+ acre residential building lots. The lands are currently zoned A-2 under
Winnebago County zoning which allows the creation of residential lots on minimum 5 acre lots. Mr. Dell’Antonia asked for clarification that if this item had come before the Plan Commission
one year ago, it could have been approved. Mr. Burich stated the item would have been approved administratively because 5+ acre lots were exempted from review. Jim Smith, Martenson &
Eisele, 109 W. Main Street, Omro, WI, stated he was disappointed in the City’s position on this request. Mr. Smith stated in 2001 they had received approval from the Township and the
County, but because of the proposed Ethanol plant, they waited for a decision to be made as to where they would locate in the area. Mr. Smith stated he felt as though this proposal would
have met staff approval in the past. He stated he hasn’t had a lot of time to discuss this proposal with staff, however, he feels this is an agricultural use of land. He stated the land
would be marketed to people who would like to raise horses. He stated a horse trail was proposed for the perimeter of the area and discussed where buildings could be placed and where
to maintain green space for future urbanization of the area. He stated he was looking for feedback from the Plan Commission as to what would be allowed. Ms. Mattox questioned if the
land was being farmed at this time. Mr. Smith replied it is currently being farmed. Mr. Smith stated he was searching to find a way to allow urbanization in the future and allow an agricultural
type of land division at this time. Mr. Simons questioned the agricultural use proposed for the land and who would be responsible for services such as police and fire. Mr. Burich stated
the Town services would apply if the land division would be granted at this time. He also informed the Plan Commission that they would see these types of requests frequently in the future.
Mr. Dell’Antonia asked where someone would look for smaller agricultural type acreage. Chairman Bettes stated they would have to look beyond the City’s 3-mile area of extraterritorial
jurisdiction. Mr. Weinsheim questioned if this was designated for agricultural use or rural preservation. Mr. Burich explained that Rural Preservation was a designation to preserve the
agricultural land use.
Plan Commission Minutes -4-December 7, 2004 Mr. Borsuk stated it wasn’t the City’s role to assist property owners with overall development but to look at ways to avoid a leap frog development
pattern. He stated this property is within the 3-mile extraterritorial jurisdiction and they need to consider if this would be good planning for a land division of this type. Mr. Simons
stated he is in agreement with the staff’s recommendation. Mrs. Propp stated she is in agreement with Mr. Borsuk. Mr. Bain stated he is also in agreement and also stated his concerns
of the Townships understanding the City’s position on land divisions and the Comprehensive Plan. Chairman Bettes questioned if there was any advice that could be given to the petitioner
or owner to make this request acceptable. Mr. Borsuk stated he didn’t see how this land division request could be approved, although he did see an opportunity for this area to be used
as a West Side north/south arterial. Ms. Mattox agreed that the need for a north/south arterial is needed on the West Side of Oshkosh, and it was to late for Clairville Road, so perhaps
this area should be looked at. Mr. Weinsheim stated that the Plan Commission has these conceptual reviews because they do want to help property owners integrate good planning in the
surrounding areas and take into consideration the growth of the City. Mr. Burich agreed that in this Conceptual Plan they need to look at if this land division is consistent with the
Comprehensive Plan, and if so, give the petitioner help to make it more acceptable with regard to sound development principles. Mr. Weinsheim questioned if a conversation is held with
the petitioner prior to bringing the item before the Plan Commission. Mr. Burich stated conversations are held so the petitioners/owners aren’t spending a lot of money on engineering
expenses. Mrs. Propp stated there is nothing in the Comprehensive Plan at this time that allows for huge lots on which to raise horses or for any other type of use. She stated that maybe
there is a place for this type of development, although services would be quite expensive for a small number of homes in a larger area. She stated they might want to give this some consideration
before the final draft is adopted. Motion by Borsuk for approval of the Extraterritorial Land Division along the south side of C.T.H. “K” in the Town of Omro to be found consistent with
the City’s Comprehensive Plan per Section 30-71 (I)(4) of the City of Oshkosh Zoning Ordinance, as well as Non Agricultural Land Division Criteria 30-71 (M)(5)(b)(i-iv), and that the
Land Division will assist and assure the continuation of the agricultural use of the land per section 30-71 (M)(5)(a) under the agricultural land division criteria. Seconded by Simons.
Motion denied 0-8.
Plan Commission Minutes -5-December 7, 2004 III: ZONE CHANGE TO R-1PD, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT WITH A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY – Omnni Associates, petitioner, G.F. Holdings
LLC and Grundy Enterprises, owner RHS Companies, a Madison based developer, is proposing to develop a large single family dwelling unit based subdivision on approximately 70 acres of
land generally located south of Ryf Road and west of Edgewood Lane. Due to the scale and nature of the proposed development, RHS is requesting a zone change to add a Planned Development
Overlay to a base R-1, Singe Family Residential Zoning District. There is also a smaller parcel zoned A-2 Light Agricultural that is included in the zone change request that will be
part of the subdivision development. Mr. Bain asked for clarification of the connector street proposed on the south side of the property. Mr. Burich stated the connector street wouldn’t
be allowed because of the wetlands in the area and would have to be moved if acceptable to the City. Larry Miller, Omnni Associates, One Systems Drive, Appleton, WI, stated they had
met with the City staff regarding this design and it was looked upon favorably. He stated this isn’t a typical design but rather considered a conservation or green subdivision. He introduced
Rick Harrison at this time as the representative from RHS Companies who has designed this subdivision and has prepared a PowerPoint presentation. Rick Harrison, RHS Companies, 406 Science
Drive, Madison, WI, stated there are 40-50 elements of this subdivision that are unique to the plan. Mr. Harrison’s PowerPoint presentation illustrated how space invites people and explained
the idea of “coving” to provide more space between the street and the walk, therefore making a greater distance between the house and the street, utilizing less street and creating a
unique park-like setting which adds character to the subdivision. The presentation illustrated how all the walks lead to a park in the center of the subdivision and pointed out a good
circulation route planned for emergency vehicles. Mr. Harrison explained in this layout the coved space (between the walk and the street) would be privately owned and maintained, most
likely by the subdivision association. Mr. Simons questioned if Bay Homes were envisioned in the plan. Mr. Harrison stated that the elements of the plan included Bay Homes. Mrs. Propp
questioned if there was a problem with utilities since less street length was being used. Mr. Harrison explained there would actually be a savings to the utilities. Mr. Dell’Antonia
questioned if storm sewers would be more of a problem with curved streets. Mr. Harrison stated the design of the streets would slow down the water flow which would be a benefit. Mr.
Dell’Antonia also questioned if snow plowing would be a problem on such a curved design. Mr. Harrison replied the curved design could pose a problem for snow plowing.
Plan Commission Minutes -6-December 7, 2004 Mr. Dell’Antonia questioned the impact on the Zoning Ordinance and building codes. Mr. Burich stated the request for a zone change to include
the Planned Development Overlay gives the City the ability to provide modifications that may be needed to implement the development plans such as providing modifications from the standard
R-1 setbacks. Discussion followed regarding the proposed detached condo and the number of homes per acre. Mrs. Propp stated this development plan appears to be bringing in new ideas,
and as long as the Department of Public Works can work with the plan and modifications can be made through the Planned Development Overlay District designation she feels this proposed
development plan is quite exciting. Mr. Simons questioned what the next step would be. Mr. Burich stated the developers would be coming forward with a request for review of a Preliminary
Plat and development plan. Mr. Bain stated he has heard no negatives in regard to this conservation/green subdivision design. Motion by Bain for approval of the zone change and finds
it in keeping with the purpose of the Planned Development Overlay District, Section 30-33 (A)(1) of the Zoning Ordinance. Seconded by Weinsheim. Motion carried 8-0. OTHER BUSINESS There
being no further business, the meeting adjourned at approximately 5:27 p.m. (Simons/Dell’Antonia). Unanimous. Respectfully submitted, DARRYN L. BURICH Planning Services Director DLB/vlr