HomeMy WebLinkAboutBoard of Zoning Appeals (10/1/1986)Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes October 1, 1986 Page Seven
V. 1805 JACKSON STREET - Michael Twohig
r. Laraine explained that Mr. Twohig is requesting a variance to provide parking
with a 2 1/2 ft. front yardsetback, a sign with a 3 ft. front yard setback, and
20 off-street parking spaces. The C-2 Commercial District and the Off-Street
Parking Regulations require a 25 ft. minimum front ,yard setback, and that a
minimum of 28 parking spaces be provided.
Mr. Larson, representative for Mr. Twohig, stated that unlike the other site,
Jackson and Murdock is a complete turn around. We have a corner lot problem with
corner lot front yard setbacks. This site is smaller than Kentucky Fried Chicken
might like to have us have in this location. This location is anticipated to be
primarily drive thru, as other Kentucky Fried Chicken's are.
Mr. Twohig stated that 60% of the business is drive thru as compared to the location
on Hwy. 41, where 80% of the business is sit-in. That is an interior seating type __
location.
Mr. Twohig stated that the 60 ft. drive thru provides the best circulation with
the existing curb cuts. This is the best number of parking stalls. The curb
cuts will enhance the traffic flaw in and around the building. The signage
location in this particular site is best on the corner. That is also in keeping
with what has been previously approved and it is the best visible location for the
signage. Part of the sign is a reader board which is 8 ft. out of the problem
area, in order to see underneath the sign. The landscaping will consist of low
shrubs on the corner.
Mr. McGee stated that this property will have much more traffic going through.
Did they plan to put up the same size .structure as the other site? Wouldn't it
be more appropriate to have a smaller structure?
Mr. Twohig explained that this location will require more kitchen space.
Mr. McGee stated that primarily they would need a larger kitchen. Were they
expecting 40% more volume? He thought that they could justify a smaller structure
here. With a smaller structure they would not need as many parking spaces.
Mr. Twohig replied that this is a standard Kentucky Fried Chicken building,
Mr. Larson replied that it will have 74 seats. He thought that in figuring the
area that there has been some concern. He questioned if they would consider the
area of the kitchen space or only the dining space?
Mr. Lamine replied that they consider the entire area. In reference to the request
for this site which had been reviewed in 1983, they figured the seating area of
the restaurant and they needed a variance for one or two of the parking spaces.
Mr. McGee asked what they would need only for the seating area?
Mr. Lamine replied 22 spaces. He added that the sign was located in the front
of the building rather than on the corner.
Mr. Kimberly asked if the square footage of the building is the same?
Mr. Larson replied that this model quite possibly has just a bit more area in the
dining room. Discussion ensued on the Lexington design which Mr. Twohig has
hgsen,for this site. This is a higher class structure than most of the Kentucky
~ried thicken structures. .
Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes October 1, 1986 Page Eight
Ms. Hintz asked if that had changed from the last time?
Mr. Twohig replied yes.
Mr. Larson stated that they would not like to see it with the sign in front. He
asked the Board to note the cupola with the Kentucky Fried Chicken sign on it.
He explained that the sign with the logo is standard placement on the top of the
building. He has no control over this. They understand that the request is to
limit signage, but that piece comes with the building.
Mr. Lamine stated that the intention of that recommendation is because they did
not want to see the building looking like a sign. That sign is very minor as
compared to the whole building looking like a sign.
Mr. Larson stated that the last time they came before the Board there was signage
on the mansard, three sides and 20 ft. in length. The bucket is on top of the
sign and this is a requirement of Kentucky Fried Chicken. The total area of
the signage does comply.
Mr. McGee stated that he had a concern with the property. He felt that they were
trying to do too much. He could see too why Kentucky Fried Chicken was concerned
with the size of the lot. It is a little more than half as big, 51% of the size
of the property we looked at on 9th Avenue. If it were larger, we wouldn't need
to be talking about parking and signage into the setback. It is my thinking that
you just are trying to do too much and this is not the appropriate location for
the structure if you don't have any more space.
Mr. Twohig stated that they have arranged with the Knights of Columbus to lease
parking stalls in their lot; Kentucky Fried Chicken is aware of this. They are
very hot on this location.
Ms. Hintz wondered what might otherwise happen to that lot? What might they
foresee if not a Kentucky Fried Chicken?
Mr. McGee replied that it is not the Board's job to foresee what might happen.
Mr. Twohig stated that he had come before the Board two and one-half years ago;
and he did pay quite a bit for this property. It would be a disaster if they had
to go some place else.
Ms. Hintz stated that if it is not a Kentucky Fried Chicken, it will be someone
else. With the size of the lot, it would be hard to put anything on it without a
variance. The Board has to consider the possibilities and the size of the property.
There are some concerns about the request because it is a corner lot and with the
sign variance. She further commented about the sign locations of the gas stations
at this intersection.
Mr. McGee rep lied that with gas stations they always have a problem.
Ms. Hintz stated that the City had taken property to round those corners. They
were not automatic. These are awfully open, big, wide lots. The County Fairgrounds
was there; we did not have to grant the sign there. They also want to take into
account that this is the nature of a crossroads. She did not want to stop all
development from that lot.
Mr. Lamine stated if it can't be developed, can it be developed into anything with-
out a variance. One of the issues the courts has established on whether a variance
should be granted is if it can't be used for anything.
Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes October 1, 198b Page Nine
Mr. Ames stated that the lot size might qualify for a fruit stand.
Ms. Hintz stated that they will always run into a parking problem. Even Burger
King has less drive in than Kentucky Fried Chicken. You always have a number of
parking stalls for any business. There is no problem here because of their
expecting 60~ drive-in business.
Mr. Ames stated that there is no on street parking in that area.
Ms. Hintz stated that to make them adhere to 28 spaces when 60% of the business
will be drive in seems like an unnecessary requirement. Kentucky Fried Chicken
is better than any other restaurant. If they are thinking about any other
possible development of the lot, it would be better to give the variance to
Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Mr. McGee stated that they can only provide 10 spaces. If they could provide
20 spaces he might consider this a somewhat more reasonable appeal.
In referencing parking in the setback, Ms. Hintz stated that there is parking in
the setbacks at almost every business all over the place. A few years ago some-
one in the Planning Department wanted to check into the violations of the people
parking into the setback throughout the City. After 20 years what they were talking
about is in all commercial areas.. Should they start applying it here if it is
feasible? Appealing this was never brought up. She thought that three-quarters
of the businesses in town would be in violation.
Mr. Lamine urged the Board to take into account that the basis of this decision
is whether a hardship exists. If the enforcement of the Ordinance was arbitrary,
that would be an argument if at one point it was not enforced. It has to be
consistently enforced. These are valid reasons fora hardship--whether it can be
developed in any other way. In 1983 part of the property was purchased by the
City to improve that intersection; therefore the lot size was reduced. He stated_
that he had failed to bring that up in the staff report. He thought he had a
hardship. In the other direction you have to take into consideration the negative
impact on the neighborhood. It's pretty hard to deny it when McDonalds has parking
up to the property line. Wendy's has parking up to the lot line on the side yard.
The gas stations have a 0 ft. setback or a few feet.
Ms. Hintz stated that Piggly Wiggly has parking up to the lot line.
Mr. Lamine replied that they could be legal non-conforming.
Ms. Hintz stated that he was there to compromise on a sign.
Mr. Larson stated that they have posts to keep the required setback on Murdock
and they have landscaping instead of providing additional parking. Kentucky
Fried Chicken is satisfied with what is there and would like to have landscaping
on the front side. They could have pushed the building further to the east out
on the Jackson Drive setback. They feel that this is more important than to have
a few more feet of parking on Jackson, from a traffic standpoint. That is the
second lane that he is talking about,
Discussion ensued on this matter.
Mr. Larson stated that the land taken by the City, maybe three to four feet, was
not very much.
Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes October 1, 1986 Page Ten
Gary Elmer, Elmers Realty and Willard Eichstadt, 940 Florida Avenue, were present
to address the item.
Mr. Eichstadt stated that he had owned this property for 35 years. He confirmed
that the City had taken 7 ft. from the property. That is a high volume traffic
corner with a lot of snow. He stated that they put a lot of snow on that corner
and it blocks that drive and the view off. They also had a problem with snow
removal. The City was always complaining that they should not park cars on the
corner because they were blocking the view from the west. He just wanted to
warn him that this is a high volume corner, and with the snow in the winter and
parking up to the sidewalk on the east and south, they will have some visibility
blockage.
Mr. McGee questicned where they could store the snow?
Mr. Eichstadt stated that Zillges would be hauling the snow away.
Mr. Eichstadt stated that there was one time in 35 years that they took the snow
from the corner.
Mr. Larson asked if they pushed it out to the corner.
Mr. Eichstadt replied no. tow they have a sidewalk and it goesright on top
of the sidewalk.
Mr. Elmer stated that he was anxious to see them come out tt~re.and that some
of their concerns had been answered. Their main concern is the parking. They
have sufficient parking for their unit, but they would not have it due to the
size volume if it overran into their parking lot. He asked if they had arranged
for any other parking.
Mr. Twohig replied no.
Ms. Hintz asked how many seats there would be.
Mr. Twohig replied 74.
Mr. Elmer replied that they only have 54 and they presently fill it.
Mr. Twohig replied that they are making some headway with the Knights of
Columbus in terms of acquiring property for additional parking. They do have a
commitment for employee parking in the back of the lot.
Ms. Hintz stated that if they need entrance and exit signs, wouldn't they need
a variance?
Mr. Lamine replied no. They had originally asked for a 5 ft. variance, however,
they have reduced them down to 3 ft. and they can be located up to the property
line.
Ms. Hintz stated that the building is entirely within the setback area. The only
infringement is for the parking spaces and the sign. There are three others that
have signs in the same place.
Discussion ensued on the signage in the area, and particularly at the Jackson and
Murdock intersection.
Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes October 1, 1986 Page Eleven
Mr. Twohig replied that his sign would be 8 ft. high. The only thing below would
be the two posts. People can see at 4 ft. off the ground from their cars.
Mr. Lamine stated that he thought that it was a valid concern for a corner lot.
He asked how big the pilings were. If they are one foot there would be no problem
with having the sign moved to the front of the building. He has indicated his
objections to the front of the building. He was in favor of this location for the
sign.
Ms. Hintz asked why they would mind having the identification on the building
since it is very visible from all approaches?
Mr. Twohig replied that Kentucky Fried Chicken only has four buildings at this
time and they have to stick with the design.
Mr. Lamine replied that this was his preference over the old building where the _
old building was the sign. Aesthetically it is more pleasing to have a nice
building and a sign away from the building.
Mr. Twohig stated that the sign on the corner would give them much more exposure.
Mr. Larson stated that he did not have the specifications for the pylons, but that
they would probably be 6, 8, or 10 ft.
Mr. Lamine stated that 8 ft. from the bottom of the sign would provide a desired
amount of height.
Ms. Hintz stated that this is no different than the others on this service
corner. However, there is some control on those corners.
Mr. Kimberly asked if a variance is required for those two signs?
Ms. Hintz replied yes. After all all kinds of other things have gone up on those
corners. This may be simple with the two posts; it will be seen by both the
east/west and north/south traffic.
Mr. Elmer asked if the Code requirement is from the bottom of the sign to the
ground?
Mr. Lamine replied that there is no Code addressing that, just the 25 ft. setback.
Mr. Elmer asked if that had been changed.
Mr. McGee stated that they were addressing the height and square footage of the
sign. They are taking so much sign and moving it high or low if they want.
Ms. Hintz stated that it is not likely that it could be a gas station with two
service stations on the other corners. She thought that any of the other structures
would have only ten legal parking spaces.
Mr. McGee replied with that size structure and drfi~ve through space?
Ms. Hintz stated that she was considering the drive space and the setbacks.
Mr. McGee stated that there are two properties to the west which are smaller, and
one has parking in the side yard setback. It is not clear to him that this property
could not be developed. It cannot be developed as a restaurant without any
variances. There are many types of businesses that grace our city. To state that
we are preventing any development is a very strong statement.
Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes October 1, 1986 Page Twelve
Mr. Kimberly moved approval of a 2 1/2 ft. front yard setback and 20 off-street
parking spaces. Motion seconded by Ms. Hintz. Motion carried 4-1.
Mr. Kimberly moved approval of a 3 ft, front yard setback fora sign. Motion
seconded by Ms. Hintz. Motion denied 2-3.
With regard to findings of fact for the setback and the parking variances, Mr.
Kimberly stated that he is improving a very run-down piece of property. They
are utilizing this property as efficiently as possib le.
Ms. Hintz stated that most businesses would need a variance for parking. In any
case a majority of the parking is in the setback area. No special privileges are
being granted.
With regard to the negative, Mr. McGee stated that he did not see a hardship.
This is a small piece of property which is being over developed. This over
developed site is created by the appellant. There is a request for variances
that would not be necessary fora smaller development which would be more appro-
priate. Therefore, the development could be done without any variances.
Ms. Hintz stated that this same privilege was granted to the three other businesses
at this four corner crossway. It would be difficult to deny this privilege which
has been extended to three other businesses. The sign they are requesting is
8 ft. high and will not interfere with any traffic flow. There is a problem
with getting a franchise to alter designs which are affected by the Zoning
Ordinance. This same request was granted to the three other property owners at
this four corner crossway.
Mr. Kimberly stated that they did not prove a hardship for the sign. There is
space on the south side for a ground ID sign.
Mr. Ames stated that the snow removed added to the problem on the corner with
visibility.
VI. 2220 VINLAND STREET - Richard Fink
N1r. Laraine explained that the applicant is requesting a variance to construct a
single family home on a 5940 sq. ft. lot which is 45 ft. in width. The R-16
Single Family Residence District requires a minimum lot size of 7,200 sq. ft. and
a minimum lot width of 60 ft. All other setback requirements are being met.
This property is owned by the City of Oshkosh and was approved for disposition by
the Plan Commission at its meeting on April 28, 1986.
Sid Herschberg, Heritage Realty, representative for Mr. Fink, stated that Mr. Fink
is going to buy this lot. It is the end lot on the block which does not meet the
requirements of 7,200 sq. ft. He asked the Board to take a look at the map which
shows Vinland and Walnut Streets, and Alden Avenue. There is a possibility that
the lots were s61d going from the south part of the block north. Some of the lots
are of similar size or they show more than the platted size. This piece of property
is 45 ft. x 135 ft, rather than 60 ft, x 135 ft. They are asking for a variance
to build a house facing Smith and they will be adhering to all of the setbacks.
Mr. McGee asked Mr. Herschberg if he knew when this was platted?
Mr. Laraine replied prior to the Ordinance. He didn't remember what year.
Mr. Herschberg stated that there is a house on the corner property at Smith and
Walnut. It may be that that l.ot was divided up and is the difference as they
went from south to north. This is an odd piece left over.