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HomeMy WebLinkAbout0117916-Electric e OSHKOSH ON THE WATER Job Address 100 N MAIN ST CITY OF OSHKOSH No 117916 ELECTRIC PERMIT -APPLICATION AND RECORD 0 Change 0 Temp Owner AKO OSHKOSH/PARKVIEW OSHKOSH/OS Create Date 01/18/2006 Category 643 - Commercial-Addition/Remodels Plan . N/A Type 0 Overhead 0 Underground Circuits ~ Fixtures ~ Switches ~ Receptacles ~ Contractor SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERINo Service 0 New Volts 120/208 Amps 400 Appliances Use/Nature of Cranky Pats Pizza /3400 Sq Ft Restaurant wiring. Price does not include cost of the luminaires. Work Fees: Valuation $30,500.00 Issued By: ~.~"~ Plan Approval $0.00 Permit Fee Paid $275.50 Date 01/18/2006 0 Permit Voided I Parcelld # 0800570000 In the performance of this work I agree to perform all work pursuant to rules governing the described construction. While the City of Oshkosh has no authority to enforce easement restrictions of which it is not a party, if you perform the work described in this permit application within an easement, the City strongly urges the permit applicant to contact the easement holder(s) and to secure any necessary approvals before starting such activity. Signature Date Address 709 HICKORY FARM LN Agent/Owner APPLETON WI 54914 - 0 Telephone Number 920-739-5156 To schedule inspections please call the Inspection Request line at 236-5128 noting the Address, Permit Number, Type of Inspection (i.e. Footing, Service, Final, etc.), Access into Building if Secure (how do we gain entry), your Name and Phone Number. Unless specified otherwise, we will assume the project is ready at the time the request is received. Work may continue if the inspection is not performed within two'business days from the time the project is ready. ~f ,~ ." ,~ ~ OJHKOfH City of Oshkosh Division of Inspection Services 215 Church Avenue PO Box 1130 Oshkosh WI 54903-1130 www.cLoshkosh.wi.us ON THE WATER March 15,2006 --...... 8,0, _.. -'\ ~' ~' rri ^' . ~ II ;J ., Paul Sobieck Milwaukee Stove & Furnace 2442 Hutson Road Green Bay, WI 54303 100 Block LLC 100 N Main St. Oshkosh, WI 54901 Site: Plan Number: R3-107-1105-H2 Cranky Pats 100 N Main St Oshkosh WI 54901 For: Description: Kitchen Exhaust Systems Object Type: HV AC only Class of Construction: IIA - 3400 Sq Ft.; sprinklered Occupancy: A: Assembly The submittal described above has been reviewed for conformance with applicable Wisconsin Administrative Codes and Wisconsin Statutes. The submittal has been CONDITIONALLY APPROVED. The owner, as defmed in Chapter 101.01(10), Wisconsin Statutes, is responsible for compliance with all code requrrements Key Item(s) I Conditions: · IMC 302.1 The building or structure shall not be weakened by the installation of mechanical systems. Verify that existing structure is capable of supporting the additional weight of the proposed roof top equipment. · IMC 304.1 Equipment and appliances shall be installed as required by the terms of their approval, in accordance with the conditions of the listing, the manufacture's instructions and this code. · IMC 401.5 Opening Location Outside air exhaust and intake openings shall be located a minimum of 10 feet (3048 mm) from lot lines or buildings on the same lot. Where openings front on a street or public way, the distance shall be measured to the centerline of the street or public way. · IMC 401.5.1 Mechanical and gravity outside air intake openings shall be located a minimum of 10 feet from any hazardous or noxious contaminant such as vents, chimneys, plumbing vents, streets, alleys, parking lots and loading docks. · IMC 403.1 The amount of supply air shall be approximately equal to the amount of return and exhaust air. Provide interlock with exhaust systems. · IBC 904.11.2 System Interconnection The Interconnection of the fire suppression system shall automatically shut down the fuel or electrical power supply to the cooking equipment. The fuel and electrical supply reset shall be manual. II:\briann\2006 Comm Plan Rev'jew\R3-107-1105-1I2 100 N Main ::it Kitd]l;;'n lIoods.dtK Page 1 of2 ... '" ;;;., · Comm 61.31(4) Revisions to approved plans. All proposed revisions and modifications which involve rules under this code and which are made to construction documents that have previously been granted approval by the department or its authorized representative, shall be submitted to the office that granted the approval. All revisions and modifications to plans shall be approved in writing by the department or its authorized representative prior to the work involved in the revision or modification being carried out. A revision or modification to a plan, drawing or specification shall be signed and sealed in accordance with Comm 61.31(1). · MUN 30-35 (1)(5) All roof top and ground level mechanical equipment and utilities shall be fully screened from view of any street or residential zoning district. Contact David Buck - Associate planner (920) 236- 5062 for additional information on screening requirements. All screening shall be properly anchored in place to resist wind loads. Additionally IBC 1608.8 Roofprojectlons - Drift loads due to mechanical equipment, penthouses, parapets and other projections above the roof shall be determined in accord.ance with Section 7.8 of ASCE 7. A screening plan for the make-up air unit is required to be approved prior to HVAC permit being issuedfor this work. . · City of Oshkosh Municipal Ordinance Section 14-1.2 "Smoking prohibited inside restarants" Note: This plan has not been reviewed for complete compliance with this ordinance, as it does not include information that addresses all the requirements for review. If there is a desire to create a separately ventilated smoking room, additional plans are required to be submitted for review. SUBMIT: · Comm 61.50 (4) Supervision. Prior to the initial occupancy of an alteration the supervising professional shall file a compliance statement form SBD-9720 with this office. A copy of the approved plans, specifications, and this letter shall be on-site during construction. All permits are required to be obtained prior to connnencement of work. In granting this approval the City of Oshkosh Inspection Services Department reserves the right to require changes or additions should conditions arise making them necessary for code compliance. As per state stats 101.12(2), nothing in this review shall relieve the designer of the responsibility for designing a safe building, structure, or component. Inquiries concerning this correspondence may be made to me at the number listed below or the address on this letterhead. B' Building Systems Consultant (920) 236-5051 Monday-Friday 7:30 A.M. to 8:30A.M and 12:30 A.M to 1:30 P.M. bnoe@ci.oshkosh.wi.us cc: Property file Fee Required $ Fee Received $ Balance Due $ ,.230.00 230.00 0.00 II:\briann\2006 (:omm Plan Review\R3-107-1.105-H2 lOG N Main:'it Kitehen Hoods.do," Page 2 of2 Job Address 100 N MAIN ST Electric Permit Work Card Permit Number 117916 Create Date 01/18/2006 Owner AKO OSHKOSH/PARKVIEW OSHKOSH/OSI Contractor SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERIN( Category 643 - Commercial-Addition/Remodels Service ,0 New 0 ChangeD Temp. N/A Amps 120/208 ~ Circuits I Type 0 Overhead 45 15 0 Underground . N/A Fixtures 29 Receptacles 38 Value $30,500.00 Volts Switches Fee $275.50 0 Appliances Use/Nature of Work Cranky Pats Pizza /3400 Sq Ft Restaurant wiring. Price does not include cost of the luminaires. Inspections: Date 02/22/2006 Type Consultation Inspector Kevin Benner approved Reviewed the XFMR locatlojn that was previously reviewed. There are heat ducts that are being located above the unit. The electrician on site requested the paperwork associated with the structure that encloses the PVC raceways that are not installed within a 15 minute finsh rated structure. I did provide him with copies of the pies and emails from the State Dept. of Comm. that approved the installation. DatelTime requested: 02/21/2006 01:02 PM Access: Meet Matt Hines on site all day Wednesday Ready DatelTime: 02/22/2006 07:04 AM Requested by: 0 Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied 0 Reinspect Fee Paid Notice Type: Phone Number: 920-641-7026 Matt SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING Date 03/14/2006 Type Service Inspector Kevin Benner pproved w/cond. REQUEST LINE The electrician on site said that he will install temporary labels identifying the panelboards, meter and location of the disconnects until the permenant labels are on site.Approved to energize Faxed to WPS 3/14/06 DatelTime requested: 03/14/2006 07:59 AM Access: CALL MATT TO SCHEDULE, HE WOULD LIKE TO BE PRESENT Ready DatelTime: 03/14/2006 07:59 AM Requested by: ~~ 0 Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied 0 Reinspect Fee Paid Notice Type: Phone Number: NOT GIVEN SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING "tl Job Address 100 N MAIN ST Electric Permit Work Card Permit Number 117916 Create Date 1/18/2006 Owner AKO OSHKOSH/PARKVIEW OSHKOSH/OSf Contractor SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERIN( Service ~ 0 ChangeO Temp . N/A I Type 0 Overhead 0 Underground. N/A Volts 120/208 Circuits 45 Luminaires 29 Amps 400 Switches 15 Receptacles 38 Use/Nature 643 - Commercial-Addition/Remodels Cranky Pats Pizza / 3400 Sq Ft Restaurant wiring. Price does not include cost of of Work he luminaires. Value $30,500.00 Inspections: Date 01/19/2006 Type Consultation Inspector Kevin Benner approved w/cond. Discuss the service installation Reviewed the concealment requirements with Bob Accord (Architect), Egress lighting, bonding, XFMR wiring, service installation Date/Time requested: 01/19/2006 07:05 AM Notice Type: Access: Meet Perry @ the north end of the building Requested by: o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied D Reinspect Fee Paid Ready Date/Time: 01/19/200609:30 AM Phone Number: -- - - - ---- - - ---- - - - ---- - ----- - - - - - ---- - - - ---- - ---------- ----- ---- -- ----- - - - --- -- ---- - ---- -- - ---- - - ----------- - - - ---- - ---- - ---- - - --- - - ----- - -- ---- - - - ---- - ---- Date 01/25/2006 Type Rough In Inspector Kevin Benner not approved Request Line - in wall RI ~ Need a 15 Min. finish rating for non-metallic wiring methods, discussed access to areas above ceilings, transformer location, piping in the oor. Date/Time requested: 01/25/2006 10:05 AM Access: Notice Type: Ready Date/Time: 01/25/200610:05 AM Requested by: SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied D Reinspect Fee Paid Phone Number: 920-841-7026 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -- Date 02/02/2006 Type Re Rough In Inspector Kevin Benner approved w/cond. Request Line - prefer 2/1/06 AM he areas with mtallic wiring methods are approved to close. This was reviewed with Jeff from the G.C. on site J Date/Time requested: 01/31/2006 02:45 PM Access: Notice Type: Ready Date/Time: 02/01/2006 07:00 AM Requested by: SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied D Reinspect Fee Paid Phone Number: 920-841-7026 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- -- Date 02/03/2006 Type Consultation rake pi", of the pipe ,haw. Date/Time requested: 02/03/2006 00:00 AM Access: Requested by: o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied Inspector Kevin Benner not approved Notice Type: Ready Date/Time: 02/03/2006 00:00 AM Phone Number: D Reinspect Fee Paid - - - ----- - - - ---- - - ---- - - - ---- - - - --- - - - - - ---- - - - ---- --- ------ ---- - - - ---- - - - --- -- --- ------ - - - ---- - - ----- - - ---- -- ---- - ---- -- - -- - - - - - - - - ----- - ---- - - - --- - - - - -- - -- . .. . Job Address 100 N MAIN ST Electric Permit Work Card Permit Number 117916 Create Date 1/18/2006 Owner AKO OSHKOSH/PARKVIEW OSHKOSH/OS~ Contractor SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERIN( Service pNew o Change 0 Temp . N/A Type 0 Overhead o Underground . N/A Volts 120/208 Circuits 45 Luminaires 29 400 Switches 15 Receptacles 38 Value $30,500.00 Amps 1643 - Commercial-Addition/Remodels Cranky Pats Pizza / 3400 Sq Ft Restaurant wiring. Price does not include cost of rhe '"m;oa"". Use/Nature of Work Inspections: Date 02/22/2006 Type Consultation Inspector Kevin Benner approved Reviewed the XFMR locatiojn that was previously reviewed. There are heat ducts that are being located above the unit. The electrician on ite requested the paperwork associated with the structure that encloses the PVC raceways that are not installed within a 15 minute finsh rated structure. I did provide him with copies of the pies and emails from the State Dept. of Comm. that approved the installation. DatelTime requested: 02/21/2006 01 :02 PM Notice Type: Access: Meet Matt Hines on site all day Wednesday Requested by: SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING Ready DatelTime: 02/22/2006 07:04 AM Phone Number: 920-841-7026 Matt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -,- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - -- o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied o Reinspect Fee Paid Type Service Inspector Kevin Benner approved w/cond. Date 03/14/2006 REQUEST LINE he electrician on site said that he will install temporary labels identifying the panel boards. meter and location of the disconnects until the permenant labels are on site.Approved to energize Faxed to WPS 3/14/06 DatelTime requested: 03/14/2006 07:59 AM Notice Type: Ready DatelTime: 03/14/2006 07:59 AM Access: CALL MATT TO SCHEDULE, HE WOULD LIKE TO BE PRESENT Requested by: SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING Phone Number: NOT GIVEN o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied 0 Reinspect Fee Paid - ----- - - - ---- - - ---- -- - - - .--- - - ------ - ------ -_.-- - - - ---- - - - ---------- - - - ---- - - - ----- -- ---- -- --- - - ----- ----- ----- - - ------ ---- - - ---- - - - ----- ---- - - --- - - ---- - --- Date 03/14/2006 Type Abv Ceiling Inspector Kevin Benner approved w/cond. ~bove ceilings except the Bar and Dining areas which are to be done by Witzke Electric. fA,lso the Firestopping is not complete and the access panels to the spaces encasing the PVC conduits shall be verified that they are compliant with the required FinishRating. DatelTime requested: 03/14/2006 00:00 AM Access: Requested by: o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied Notice Type: Ready DatelTime: 03/14/200600:00 AM Phone Number: o Reinspect Fee Paid - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - -- -- Date 04/25/2006 Type Final Inspector Kevin Benner not approved epen boxes for Fire Alarm that is not installed and other CL2 wirng that is not complete, Cooler wiring was not done, Work Space in the garbage room, temporary wiring in the adjacent common area which includes wiring that has been installed without permits and has open I onductors and splices. Dining room lighting does not have permits (E.C. discussed with the G.C.). The raceway enclosure access panel may not provide the 15 Min. finish rating (G.C. refuses to provide info). Firestop drawings. Date/Time requested: 04/20/2006 09:18 AM Access: Meet Scott & Matt on site Requested by: SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied 0 Reinspect Fee Paid Notice Type: Ready Date/Time: 04/25/2006 01 :30 PM Phone Number: 841-7096 Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Job Address 100 N MAIN ST Electric Permit Work Card Permit Number 117916 Create Date 1/18/2006 Owner AKO OSHKOSH/PARKVIEW OSHKOSH/OSf Contractor SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERIN( Service b New 0 ChangeO Temp . N/A I Type 0 Overhead 0 Underground. N/A Volts 120/208 Circuits 45 Luminaires 29 Amps 400 Switches 15 Receptacles 38 Use/Nature 643 - Commercial-Addition/Remodels Cranky Pats Pizza /3400 Sq Ft Restaurant wiring. Price does not include cost of of Work he luminaires. Value $30,500.00 Inspections: Date 05/03/2003 Type Re Final Inspector Kevin Benner approved w/cond. Electrical Inspector called the E.C. to arrange the inspection IMissing Fire Alarm J-Box & identification of FA boxes, 2x4 troffers by the coolers are to be secured to the grid, open boxes. Scott stated he ould call when corrected. DatelTime requested: 05/02/2006 09:02 AM Access: Meet Scott from Suburban on site Requested by: o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied Notice Type: Ready DatelTime: 05/02/2006 09:02 AM Phone Number: 841-7096 Scott D Reinspect Fee Paid - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - --- - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - -- Type Re Final Inspector Kevin Benner no time Date Scott stated the violations were corrected on 5/10/6. DatelTime requested: 05/12/2006 08:50 AM Access: Requested by: SUBURBAN ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING o Reinspect Fee 0 Fee Wavied D Reinspect Fee Paid Notice Type: Ready DatelTime: 05/10/2006 00:00 PM Phone Number: 841-7096 Scott - - - - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - --- - - - - -- - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- p ~ OJHKOJH City of Oshkosh Inspection Services Division 215 Church Avenue PO Box 1130 Oshkosh WI 54903-1130 ON THE WATER Fax To: Suburban Electric / Perry Schisel From: Kevin Benner (920-236-5046) Fax: 920-739-4767 Pages: 2 Phone: 920-739-5156 Date: 03/01/06 Re: Cranky Pats CC: D Urgent D For Review D Please Comment D Please Reply D Please Recycle . Comments: Hi Perry, I reviewed the attached lighting layout that you submitted to our office with the Building Inspector. The Building Inspector added an additional area to be illuminated in addition to the egress path that was predetermined by your supervising professional. It appears that the light levels would be acceptable, but it is difficult to verify without knowing what luminaries (fixtures) you intend to install. Also we did not know exactly what the XX's & O's are for on the plan. Any questions or concems please feel free to contact me. Kevin " \0 o o N -- N ~ N :; ="0 ",.- ~O .... ;i'; .5 Go) oZ ~ .. 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'" ~ Cl., .J 1 ~ I:: A p ~ ~ (fJ i.b ~ ~ N ~ ~ ~ ~ ,;i ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ N ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " ~ ~ ~ ~ $ ~ ~ :t. ~ ~ ~ E " ~ ..; ~ ~ ~ OJHKOJH ON THE WATER City of Oshkosh Division ofInspection Services 215 Church Avenue PO Box 1130 Oshkosh WI 54902-1130 Office 920-236-5050 Fax 920-236-5084 BOB ACORD 4825 COUNTY RD A OSHKOSH WI 54901 February 2, 2006 Re: Cranky Pat's Electric Chase/Soffit Dear Mr. Acord; This office has spent considerable time researching the 15 Minute Finish Rating requirement which you and this office have differing views/ understanding of the code requirement. Background The site involves the Cranky Pat's restaurant being developed at 100 N Main St. This restaurant is classified as an Assembly occupancy by both the State Building and Electric Code. The building is a Type II, non-combustible building. Prior to developing this Assembly occupancy, the wiring methods employed included the use of non-metallic tubing or conduit. Per the State Electric Code, section NEC 518, non-metallic tubing/conduit may not be used in an Assembly occupancy that is located within a non-combustible building unless said tubing/conduit is either encased in two inches of concrete (NEC 518.4(A)) or concealed in walls, floors and ceilings where the walls, floors and ceilings provide a thermal barrier of material that has a least a 15 minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire-rated assemblies (NEC 518.4(C).) You have chosen to comply by utilizing the later method. Code Issue You have taken issue with this office's application ofNEC 518.4(C). This office has advised you that the soffit being designed to encapsulate the existing non-metallic tubing/conduit must be designed using tested/listed assemblies providing a 15 minute finish rating. This office has also advised you that assemblies utilizing metal framing will not meet this requirement, as pointed out in subsection II, 3. Finish Ratings of the U/L Fire Resistance Directory. You have sent information indicating that UL staff support your opinion that a metal stud framed, one tested listed fire wall provides this required finish rating. In response to your fax sent yesterday, February 1,2006, I have contacted Jill Witt of Underwriters Laboratories to make further inquiry on this topic. Ms. Witt has confirmed that this office's understanding and application of Finish Rating requirements is correct. The highlights of this conversation confirmed the following: 1. The Finish Rating of a tested/listed assembly applies to the temperature of the face of the structural member supporting the assembly/gypsum board. The U/L section cited above states the following regarding Finish Ratings: A finish rating established for assemblies containing combustible (wood) supports. The finish rating is defined as the time at which the wood stud or wood joist reaches an average temperature rise of 250 Deg. F or an individual temperature rise of 325 Deg. F as measured on the plane of the wood nearest the fire. A finish rating is not intended to represent a rating for a membrane ceiling. 2. A Finish Rating is not established for assemblies utilizing steel supports because steel readily conducts temperature change. Meaning, assemblies utilizing steel supports would not pass the requirements to establish a Finish Rating due to thermal conductivity. 3. Gypsum Board by itself does not have a Finish Rating, it must be part of a tested/listed assembly. Summary Therefore as stated in my fax to you on January 31,2006, section NEC 518.4(C) specifically calls for protection by at least a 15 minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire-rated assemblies. At this time I would ask you to submit details referencing what assemblies, vertical and horizontal, will be used to satisfy this requirement. Apparently, you have obtained differing direction on this matter from State of Wisconsin, Division of Safety and Buildings personnel. If the Division of Safety & Buildings desires to render a differing interpretation on this matter, this office will require such to be in writing. Please forward the soffit details to this office at your earliest convenience. If you have further questions, please call me at 920-236-5045. Sincerely; Allyn Dannhoff Director of Inspection Services. cc: Brian LaFriniere, Ganther Construction Tom Garvey, Safety & Buildings, Electric Code Consultant Joe Hertel, Safety & Buildings, Program Manager Henry Kosarzycki, Safety & Buildings, Program Manager F~ lOON Main Page 1 of2 Benner, Kevin From: Robert Acord [rjacord-csi@new.rr.com] Sent: Monday, February 06,20068:52 AM To: Dannhoff, Allyn J.; kbenner@cLoshkosh.wLus Cc: Robert Acord; Brian LaFriniere; Duane Helwig Subject: Re: 100 N Main Greetings Allyn Dannhoff and Kevin Benner. I am sure by now you have received and read State Electrical Inspector Joe Hertle's letter referring to what the NEC and UL consider a 15 minute thermal barrier. I hope this finally clarifies things for the City of Oshkosh. As you will read, a 15 minute thermal barrier is what is required to protect the non-metallic electrical pipes. Not a 3-hour wall which was what the City first requested. After a masonry wall was constructed which provided this rating, we were told that a two hour barrier would be required around the non-metallic pipes. Now we find out that a 15 minute barrier is the requirement. Confusion was overwhelming since the understanding of finish rating, and thermal barrier seamed to be different between the City Inspectors, UL, State of Wisconsin and NEC. I am glad that Joe Hertle was finally able to contact the proper authorities who clarified that a 15 minute barrier is what is required. The following are responses to your questions: 1. Since the fire treaded lumber serves no structural purpose other than holding up one layer of 5/8" gypsum board, a 10' long, 2x4 will easily support the weight. The lumber members don't need fasteners if face nailed as I have shown in the section sent to you earlier. Please be more specific on just what "other issues" are shown in your photo's. 2. See answer to question #1. 3. Again, the 2x4's support very little weight. 1-1/2" of bearing will suffice for the end of these furring strips. The tested listed rating of 15 minutes is accomplished in the drywall alone. The furring, blocking, (metal or wood) only holds the thermal barrier in place and does not interfere with the 15 minute barrier. If the members have been notched to the point of not providing sufficient blocking for the gypsum board, then a new wood member can be sistered to the existing support, or metal plates can be fastened on the side of the wood member to strengthen it. A field decision should be made. 4. All that is required is a 15 minute barrier. The 5/8" gypsum will butt against the masonry wall, fastened to blocking. The joint will then be fire caulked. 5. There should never be service personnel crawling in this space. Repairs will be made by opening the 15 minute barrier where required. The wood supports for the gypsum board is just below the conduits. If someone were to crawl in this space they would not be supported by the 15 minute barrier supports but by the support structure for the conduits. This structure looks quiet sufficient but was not meant to crawl on. Additional note: This chase will terminate at the common wall between the toilets and unoccupied space. First fire packs (fire-rated bags) will be used to fill any voids between pipes, then 5/8" FireGard Gypsum board will be cut and fit around the pipes. Fire caulk will then be applied around the pipes to provide the required barrier. Please advise us as soon as possible as to when we can close this soffit in. This confusion about the thermal barrier has delayed this project for weeks and has incurred expenses that could have and should have been avoided. The City's cooperation in avoiding any further delays will truely be appreciated. Thank you, Robert J. Acord 2/28/2006 FW: 100 N Main -, Page 2 of2 Project Architect ----- Original Message ----- From: Qg!lnholf, Allyn J. To: IJgC;:Qrq:_c;:~i@t}~W,IL_g_Qm: Sent: Friday, February 03,20062:47 PM Subject: FW: 100 N Main Bob; I left message with Jeff about determining what kind of fasteners and hangars have to be used. These photos show other issues to address in addition to the testedllisted assembly issues. 1. What type of fasteners can be used with Fire Retardant Treated Lumber. Hangars also. Please provide literature address this topic. 2. Verify 2x4's can span almost 10' as a ceiling. 3. Some of the soffit ceiling 2x4's have been notched excessively. How are they to be supported/reinforced? How will that affect the tested/listed assembly? 4. The masonry electric chase will have to be fire stopped where it communicates into the soffit! first floor ceiling area. How will this be accomplished? Provide details of the tested/listed assembly. 5. Demonstrate the soffit can support service personnel. Service personnel have to gain access to the inside of the soffit for future electric installation/maintenance issues. Please advise Jeff/Brian not to sheet rock the. soffit until all issues are approved. Also advise them not to rock on Monday as the Plumbing Inspection has not been done. Apparently the Plumbing request came in today at the same time they applied for the permit. ---Original Message--- From: Benner, Kevin Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 1 :52 PM To: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Subject: 100 N Main <<DSC00008.JPG>> <<DSC00002.JPG>> <<DSC00010.JPG>> <<DSC00003.JPG>> <<DSC00013.JPG>> <<DSC00009.JPG>> <<DSC00004.JPG>> <<DSC00005.JPG>> <<DSC00006.JPG>> <<DSC00011.JPG>> <<DSC00021.JPG>> <<DSC00012.JPG>> <<DSC00020.JPG>> <<DSC00017.JPG>> <<DSC00014.JPG>> <<DSC00022.JPG>> 2/28/2006 Finifih Rating Requirements \, Page 1 of7 t' Benner, Kevin From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Sent: Wednesday, February 08,20063:04 PM To: Benner, Kevin Subject: FW: Finish Rating Requirements -----Original Message----- From: Kraft, Warren P. Sent: Wednesday, February 08,20062:16 PM To: 'Kosarzycki, Henry' Cc: Dannhoff, Allyn J.; Hertel, Joe Subject: RE: Finish Rating Requirements Sir: Thank you for your clarifying remarks. Based on what you state, I will advise the Inspection Services Division to follow the state's position as agents of the state. In this regard, should anything untoward occur because of the state's agents adhering to Mr.. Hertel's instruction, the City of Oshkosh will not be held responsible because our inspectors are acting as state agents under the Department's specific direction and control. As a further note to your response about circuit court intervention, the city raised that issue in the then-ending litigation and both the circuit and appellate courts brushed it aside. We day-to-day practitioners all learn the hard way that what the state says is not always what the court necessarily adopts as the law of the land -- all those interpretative rules we're trained to follow notwithstanding. Please note that, for the record, while I do not view the Department's education as legally defensible, because of the role the city inspectors are playing as agents of the state, I understand that I have no choice but to advise the inspectors to follow Mr.. Hertel's missives. TNX, Warren P. Kraft City Attorney Office 215 Church Ave I P.O. Box 1130 I Oshkosh WI 54903-1130 (920) 236-5115 I (920) 236-5090 fax ~!5rgft@glQ~bJs9-Rb,~L1t~ IMLA Regional Vice President Washington DC 20005 -----Original Message----- From: Kosarzycki, Henry [mailto:hkosarzycki@commerce.state.wi.us] Sent: Wednesday, February 08,20062:06 PM To: Kraft, Warren P. Cc: Dannhoff, Allyn J.; Hertel, Joe Subject: RE: Finish Rating Requirements Good Afternoon Mr. Kraft, I have been included in the preceding string of email communication based on my role as program manager acting as auditor and liaison with all of our agent municipalities in the state of Wisconsin. In an attempt to clarify the matter at hand I would like to offer the following points. . Specific to the matter at hand the City of Oshkosh is acting as an agent of the state and for that reason must recognize and administer the rules under our direction. . Mr. Hertel is providing instruction, which is all too often referred to as interpretation suggesting individual 2/22/2006 Fini~;h Rating Requirements Page 2 of7 opinion. Mr. Hertel is providing this direction based on the division of Safety and Building's consistent administration of the said rule. . The City of Oshkosh under "home-rule" reserves the right to enforce what ever rules they have under municipal ordinance which may be more restrictive than the state code. Contrary to that, where there is no municipal rule on any given subject the state administrative rules, adopted standards and statutes are applied accordingly. . One final concern that I had was specific to your comment regarding "circuit" court action over state administrative rule. Under the Administrative section of the Commercial Building Code (s. Comm 61.21 and subsequently Comm 16.07) an appeal process is in place where by an individual can appeal a municipal order as well as state direction. If in fact resolution can not be met, a hearing process is in place. I understand that you find the Inspection Services Division interpretation to be quite reasonable and legally defensible, I would caution you that the Inspection Services Division is assuming the role of interpretation and subsequent enforcement of state code that is contrary to the Division of Safety and Building Division direction. I am always available to discuss these matter further at your convenience. I hope that this has helped resolve the matter at hand. Henry Kosarzycki, AIA mailing address: 141 NW Barstow Street Waukesha, Wisconsin 53186-3789 mobil phone number: 608-212-0138 From: Kraft, Warren P. (mailto:WKraft@ci.oshkosh.wi.us] Sent: Wednesday, February 08,200612:33 PM To: 'Hertel, Joe'; Dannhoff, Allyn J. Cc: Kosarzycki, Henry; 'rjacord-csi@new.rr.com'; Ewing, Monte; Garvey, Tom; Meneguin, Dan; Weber, Ray; Bending, Brian; Benner, Kevin Subject: RE: Finish Rating Requirements Sir Contrary to your assertion that this exchange is wasting your time, I respectfully request that if this is indeed the Department's official policy and interpretation, that the department put this in writing on its letterhead. Otherwise, because I find the Inspection Services Division interpretation to be quite reasonable and legally defensible, I will instruct the city staff to proceed accordingly. This city has been taken to court attempting to enforce the department's "interpretation" without any assistance from the department's legal staff and has been soundly thrashed in circuit and appellate court. Therefore, we will continue to enforce our division's interpretation unless and until the city receives an official interpretation on Department letterhead. TNX, Warren P. Kraft City Attorney Office 215 Church Ave I P. O. Box 1130 I Oshkosh WI 54903-1130 (920) 236-5115 I (920) 236-5090 fax wkraft@ci.oshkosh.wi.us 2/22/2006 Fini~h Rating Requirements Page 3 of7 IMLA Regional Vice President Washington DC 20005 -----Original Message----- From: Hertel, Joe [mailto:jhertel@commerce.state.wLus] Sent: Wednesday, February 08,20069:57 AM To: 'Dannhoff, Allyn J.'; Hertel, Joe Cc: Kosarzycki, Henry; 'rjacord-csi@new.rr.com'; Ewing, Monte; Garvey, Tom; Meneguin, Dan; Weber, Ray; 'Kraft, Warren P.'; 'Bending, Brian'; 'Benner, Kevin' Subject: RE: Finish Rating Requirements Allyn, You are missing my point and wasting my time along with all others involved. The department's position is that a 15-minute thermal barrier is a 15 minute finish rating and the installation you are playing with is acceptable to the department. If you do not undestand please give me a call. Joe Hertel From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. [mailto:adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wi.us] Sent: Wednesday, February 08,20069:37 AM To: 'Hertel, Joe' Cc: Kosarzycki, Henry; 'rjacord-csi@new.rr.com'; Ewing, Monte; Garvey, Tom; Meneguin, Dan; Weber, Ray; Kraft, Warren P.; Bending, Brian; Benner, Kevin Subject: RE: Finish Rating Requirements Joe; I recognize the parallel you are trying to draw. However one must also consider that chapter three of the NEC is a general chapter that discusses installation issues and Chapter 5 discusses issues that are applied to specific occupancies. (Similar to the building code having chapters that are general to all structures and then having chapters or code items that are applied to specific occupancies.) In this case article 362.10(2) (which only applies to ENT, not rigid non-metallic conduit)) contains specific language in the code (not the commentary) that states "The 15 minute finish rated thermal barrier shall be permitted to be used for combustible or noncombustible walls, floors, ceilings." So from a general code installation requirement it is recognized in the code that the intent of 362.10(2) is to focus on the 15 minute thermal barrier vs. a 15 minute finish rating. However, section 352.12(F) prohibits the installation of Rigid Non-Metallic Conduit in Places of Assembly except as allowed in 518.4 and section 362.12(8) prohibits the installation of Electric Non-Metallic Tubing in Places of Assembly except as allowed in 518.4. One should note section 518.4 does not contain the same language as 362.10(2) stating "The 15 minute finish rated thermal barrier shall be permitted to be used for combustible or noncombustible walls, floors, ceilings." Therefore one must recognize that this provision may not have been included because a greater degree of protection may have been desired because it is a place of assembly. This is similar to the Building Code having stricter provisions that apply to assembly occupancies. Since section 518.4 does not contain the language that 362.10(2) has, we believe article 518.4 was intending to focus on a Finish Rating Assembly vs. simply a thermal barrier. If the intent is/was to apply the language of 362.10(2) to places of assembly, there would be no reason to have article 518.4 because non-metallic tubing and rigid conduits would already be compliant with the general installation methods of Chapter 3 wiring methods. When you review the code requirements in chapter 5, Special Occupancies, Article 518 does not contain this same language (either in the actual code or commentary) indicating that 15 minute finish rated thermal barrier can be used for combustible or noncombustible walls, floors, 2/22/2006 Fini~h Rating Requirements Page 4 of7 ceilings. In absence of such language, one must apply the 15 minute finish rating requirement as printed. It is recognized that previously section 362.10 said "only assemblies containing combustible support members have published finish ratings." This was modified to allow both combustible and non-combustible framing behind the thermal barrier as a general rule. Apparently there was a recognition that this article in chapter 3 needed to be modified to meet the intent of the code for most installations. However, since this language change was not carried over into section 518.4, one cannot interpret that it was the intent to apply this change to Places of Assembly. If there was an intent to allow this in assembly halls, the code would no longer need the exceptions in 352.12(F) or 362.10(2) referring one to section 518.4. Regarding your reference to IBC Table 720.2.1.4(2): You must first go to the start of this code section to understand the entire section is about the methodology in establishing fire ratings for non-tested/listed assemblies (not finish ratings.) This table, to my understanding has nothing to do with finish ratings. Rather it is the amount of time the material will contribute to the overall Fire Rating of an assembly. In this case the table you cited is to establish the amount of time in Fire Rating (not finish rating) that would be added to a precast or cast in place concrete wall. I have not read the entire scope of section 720, but from what I have skimmed through in the entire section, it never talks about Finish Ratings. Section 720 is a recipe method for establishing fire ratings for various assemblies, I did not see any language about Finish Ratings. The more we research this and analyze this issue, the more I am convinced this office is enforcing article 518.4 correctly. After discussing this issue with our City Attorney, we do not believe we have the latitude to apply/enforce article 518.4(C) in any other manner than what we have stated. If the Division of Safety & Buildings desires this section to be applied or enforced in any other manner, then such direction must be provided on Division of Safety & Buildings Letterhead. Until such direction is received this office has no choice but to enforce the code as we have stated. As previously indicated, we believe there is justification for supporting a variance. Discussing this with our Electrical Inspector, we believe that protection offered by the required sprinkler system along with the 15 minute thermal barrier ( in place of a 15 minute finish rated system) would provide equal or greater protection. We believe this may be a method to satisfy the code requirements. Sincerely; Allyn Dannhoff -----Original Message----- From: Hertel, Joe [mailto:jhertel@commerce.state.wi.us] Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 2:30 PM To: 'Dannhoff, Allyn J.' Cc: Kosarzycki, Henry; 'rjacord-csi@new.rr.com'; Ewing, Monte; Garvey, Tom; Meneguin, Dan; Weber, Ray Subject: RE: Finish Rating Requirements Allyn, This is not an interpretation but rather the application of the building code in Wisconsin. 1/2 inch gypsum provides a 15-minute finish or thermal barrier regardless of the support material. Table 720.2.1.4(2) of the IBC provides a table of values for time assigned to finish materials on fire exposed side of a wall. It does not distinguish whether the support is combustible (wood) or metal. The key is to provide at least a 15 minute thermal barrier 2/2212006 Fini~h Rating Requirements 2/22/2006 Page 5 of7 and this is accomplished with the 1/2 inch gypsum. If it is Type X gypsum the rating increases to 25 minutes from the 15 at a nominal 1/2 inch thickness. It seems that UL has tested a finish rating for gypsum where it was fastened to wooden studs. The IBC does not distinguish the support means. The department adopts the IBC which says 1/2 inch gypsum is a 15 minute finish rating and the IBC is the department position. The NEC Handbook has comments which just like the Fine Print Note you cite from Section 518.4(C) are not enforceable. The commentary following Section 362.10 says it is not the intent to limit ENT to construction of combustible support members. They previously had said only assemblies containing combustible support members have published finish ratings. These rules would also apply to rigid nonmetallic conduit installed in accordance with Article 518 requirements. Joe Hertel Program Manager From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. [mailto:adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wi.us] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:54 AM To: 'Hertel, Joe' Cc: Benner, Kevin Subject: RE: Finish Rating Requirements Thanks Joe. I too wondered about the specifics of the thermal barrier vs. a 15 min. Finish rating assembly. The reason I copied you on this is to determine if S&B has or will issue a formal interpretation or direction on this. This office tries to follow State Direction for the sake of establishing some level of uniformity/consistency with how codes are applied elsewhere in the state. At this point, all I can work with is the verbiage in NEC 518.4 which could be interpreted/applied in two different directions: 1. Meet a tested/listed finish rating, which per U/L assemblies with steel framing will not pass. or 2. provide a 15 minute thermal barrier which is simply 1/2" sheetrock. As far as point two, such an interpretation would be similar to the 15 min thermal barrier required to protect foam insulation in the Comm Bldg and Uniform Dwelling Code. Neither says it has to be an assembly. Rather one could use metal studs, metal furring strips, 1/2" wood furring strips with the rock. Non of these methods would be a tested listed assembly, but are common practices. Due to the specific manner in which 518.4 is worded, it is not this office's position to take what might be viewed as a lesser approach. Had the verbiage stopped at 15 min. thermal barrier, we could simply allow an assembly with 1/2" sheetrock. So, as the Program Manager, how do you (or the Dept.) desire this code to be applied/interpreted. While I supervise the office, I do not believe it is appropriate for me to render this interpretation because I do not know what the goal of the code writers was when this code section was crafted. Was it to provide a simple thermal barrier to delay the time in which the non-metallic conduit would succumb to the effects of heat and release toxic chemicals or was it to do more than that? However the NEC handbook does contain a FPN (footnote) that specifically cites verbiage from the U/L directory that makes specific reference to the fact that finish ratings are only established for assemblies utilizing wood framing members. Similar to the Q&A section of the Dept's Web site that gives direction on many Fini~h Rating Requirements 2/22/2006 Page 6 of7 Bldg & HVAC issues, I think it would be appropriate to render an official dept. interpretation/direction on this topic if it is the Dept.'s position that only a thermal barrier is needed, because the NEC language did not stop at thermal barrier, rather it went on to say "as identified in listings of fire rated assemblies. Such an interpretation/direction should be presented in a manner where it is recognized as official department policy. Possibly the code writers simply wanted to make sure the thermal barrier was simply something that was nationally recognized as a thermal barrier vs. opening up the code to interpretation on what types of material provide the 15 min. thermal barrier. If this isthe case.and the Dept. desires to issue a clarification/interpretation please do so. However, again I have to refer back to the FPN provided in the NEC Handbook; if this was the case I do not believe the FPN would have cited the language about establishing finish ratings for assemblies with wood framing. I think the answer truly hinges on this last aspect. If the Dept. is leaning toward rendering direction to only apply the 15 min. thermal barrier, the contractor would like to see this happen rather quickly as they have completed the rough framing stage and want to install the sheetrock. VARIANCE CANDIDATE???? Another thought on this is whether the Dept. would support a variance. We will try to send you a photo of the installation later today. Briefly, this is a type II, seven story building, completely sprinklered. The soffit being built is approx. 10' wide to house upwards of 70 parallel conduit runs that feed primarily the apartments on stories 2-7. Some of the conduits will feed the rest of the first floor as it is developed (vacant right now.) The sprinkler system covers the top side of the parallel conduits and the below the soffit housing the conduits. It is my understanding the intent of the 15 minute finish rating is to retard the flow of heat to allow time for the occupants to exit before the conduits succomb to heat (release of toxic chemicals and/or failure of the electric system.) One could argue that protecting this area with a sprinkler system would offer equal or better protection. What are your thoughts as far as supporting a variance request for this? Thank you for your thoughts on this topic. Sincerely; Allyn Dannhoff -----Original Message----- From: Hertel, Joe [mailto:jhertel@commerce.state.wi.us] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 20069:02 PM To: 'Dannhoff, Allyn J.'; 'rjacord-csi@new.rr.com' Cc: 'blafriniere@ganther.com'; Garvey, Tom; Kosarzycki, Henry; Hertel, Joe; 'Benner, Kevin' Subject: RE: Finish Rating Requirements Allyn, I am not going to say you are wrong and neither is Jill Witt. For sure, a wall of gypsum on metal studs does not have a finish rating since it has never been evaluated for that purpose. I had an interesting discussion with one of the Senior Engineers at UL and think I can lend a reasonable interpretation to this issue. the NEC says in Section 518.4(C)(1) "concealed within walls, floors, and Finiesh Rating Requirements Page 70f7 ceilings where the walls, floors and ceilings provide a thermal barrier of material that has at least a 15-minute finish rating .." The key in here is a thermal barrier. It does not say we need a 15-minute finish rating but rather a thermal barrier that has a least a 15-minute finish rating. A concrete deck/ceiling or a rated wall (1, 2, 3, or 4 hour) will provide a thermal barrier that exceeds a 15-minute finish rating. for additional verification you could check out the commentary in the handbook under Section 362.10. It states that "It is not the intent to limit ENT to construction consisting of combustible support members. This section is intended to provide a 15-minute thermal barrier as a minimum threshold of acceptability." While a 1-hour wall does not have a 15-minute finish rating I have no doubt that it provides a thermal barrier that exceeds 15 minutes. If I followed the 15-minute finish rating I cannot get it with poured concrete or cement blocks since they have not been evaluated but I think you will agree that they are a thermal barrier and by construction should exceed a 15-minute finish rating. A 1-hourfire rated wall should exceed a 15- minute finish rating although it does not have a finish rating. I trust this answers the question on this installation. Joe Hertel Program Manager From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. [mailto:adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wi.us] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:41 PM To: 'rjacord-csi@new.rr.com' Cc: 'blafriniere@ganther.com'; Tom Garvey (E-mail); Henry Kosarzycki (E-mail);.jhertel@commerce.state.wi.us.; Benner, Kevin Subject: Finish Rating Requirements Bob; attached is a letter I prepared outlining the requirements for covering the Non-metallic tubing/conduit at the Cranky Pat's restaurant. <<100 N Main - soffit_.doc>> 2/22/2006 Benner, Kevin From: Sent: To: Cc: Subject: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Wednesday, February 08,20063:19 PM 'rjacord-csi@new.rr.com' Benner, Kevin; 'jhertel@commerce.state.wLus'; Kraft, Warren P. 15 minute thermal barrier Bob; This office will enforce the 15 minute thermal barrier (rather than finish rated assembly) as directed by the State. As such, you would not be obligated to use the fire retardant treated lumber, rather you can use metal framing. Please forward the structural information regarding repairing the notched joists. Please advise Brian or Jeff to call for an inspection of the soffit when all repairs are made. Also, reviewing the plan review letter, I found mention of an occupancy separation requirement at the south end of this tenant space. Please advise how this will be addressed. How will the conduits penetrating this south wall be addressed? Thank you. Allyn Dannhoff 1 F\V: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Page 1 of3 Benner, Kevin Sent: To: Cc: From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Friday, February 10, 2006 8:49 AM 'jhertel@commerce.state.wLus'; Henry Kosarzycki (E-mail) 'rjacord-csi@new.rr .com'; 'tgarvey@commerce.state.wi.us'; 'rweber@commerce.state.wi.us'; 'dmemeguin@commerce.state.wi.us'; Kraft, Warren P.; Benner, Kevin; " mewing@commerce.state.wi.us'; 'blafriniere@ganther.com' Subject: FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Good Morning Joe and Henry; While this office is considering our disagreement regarding the application of NEC 518.4(C) closed, I thought you might appreciate the following commentary from NFPA. I had tried gaining this information prior to this past Wednesday because I recognized the State was not going to reconsider its position on this issue regardless of the logic presented. I am also forwarding this to the Supervising Professional and Contractors involved to demonstrate this office was not "fabricating its own interpretation" or "making a mountain out of a molehill" as we were accused. In fact, this office spends considerable energy in trying to help designers and contractors by pointing them in the direction to find solutions to their code issues, rather than just pointing out code violations and leaving them at their own devices to find such solutions. Respectfully; Allyn Dannhoff -----Original Message---- From: Sargent, Jeffrey (mailto:jsargent@NFPA.org] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 20064:17 PM To: adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wi.us Cc: Carpenter, James (E-mail);donald.j.talka@us.u1.com; Vondrasek, Bob; Henderson, Carol Subject: RE: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC To: Allyn Dannhoff, Director of Inspection Services From: Jeffrey Sargent, NFPA Senior Electrical Specialist Date: 2/9/06 Section 518.4(C) in the 2005 NEC permits the use of rigid nonmetallic conduit and electrical nonmetallic tubing within walls, floors, ceilings and above suspended ceilings of assembly occupancies provided that the assembly (wall covering and supporting structure) provide a minimum 15 - minute finish rating. The 15 - minute finish rating is established in a compilation of listings of fire- rated assemblies that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction. This section does not open the door for the assembly to be constructed of materials other than those identified in the listings of fire-rated assemblies that provide a 15-minute finish rating. It should be noted that by its location in Chapter 5 of the NEC, the requirements of Article 518 may amend or modify the general requirements of Chapters 1 through 4. In this case, the bar has been raised for the useofthese methods in assembly occupancies and this provision is more restrictive than the general rules for uses permitted in 352.10 for RNC and 362.10 for ENT. The substantiation 2/2212006 FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Page 2 of3 for this proposal that resulted in the inclusion of this provision (first included as Exception No.3 to 518-4 in the 1996 NEC) indicated that due to the type of occupancy covered in this article, the need to provide enhanced protection for the nonmetallic wiring methods was achieved through strict adherence to the use of assemblies identified as being able to provide the 15 minute finish rating as described in the current fine print note following 518.4(C) and that the rules for assembly occupancies were indeed more restrictive than the general installation allowances. As with any requirement of1he NEC, 90.4 allow the authority having jurisdiction to permit alternative approaches to compliance where equivalency can be demonstrated and documented. This correspondence is not a Formal Interpretation issued pursuant to NFPARegulations. Any opinion expressed is the personal opinion of the author, and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services. We are on the Web! ! Visit out home page at www.nfpa.org NFPA e-mail addresses are as follows: National Electrical Code: NEC@NFPA.org Life Safety Code: LSC@NFPA.org National Fire Alarm Code: FIREALARM@NFPA.org Sprinklers: NFPA13@NFPA.org Hazardous Materials/Chemical: HAZCHEM@NFPA.ORG Fire Investigations:INVESTIGATIONS @NFPA.ORG Marine Fire Protection: MARINE@NFPA.org library: Library@NFPA.org Customer Service: Custserv@NFPA.org --Original Message--'- From: Dannhoff. Allyn J. Sent: Monday. February 06, 2006 4:50 PM To: 'nfpa70@nfpa.org' Subject: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEe Allyn Dannhoff, Director of Inspection Services City of Oshkosh Member 10419420 phone 920-236-5045. Dear Sir or Mam; We have the following situation and seek your direction. We have a restaurant/tavern (Assembly Hall) being developed in a non-combustible building, 7 stories tall. When the building was builtin 2002, the first floor was left vacantforfuture commercial tenant development. Floors 2-7 are apartments. The electric that is supplied to the upper floors is fed from the basement. All of the wiring as it runs through the first floor is in rigid non-lJ1etallic conduit. We have identified that section 518.4(C) requires this non-metallic conduit to be concealed behind walls, floors, ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has a least a 15 minute Finnish rating as identified in listings of fire rated assemblies. 2/22/2006 FV!: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Page 3 of3 Thir.) has caused some difference of opinions with interpretation and application. Should this be applied in a manner in which a tested/listed assembly that provides a 15 minute finish rating is used or is this simply meant to require a membrane/material that provides a 15 minute thermal barrier and the code only stated "as identified in listing of fire rated assemblies" as a way to identify what wall/floor/ceiling covering materials are allowed to satisfy this requirement. I see that the 2005 NEC Handbook commentary for 362.10 offers a more in-depth analysis of this question. Specifically, the commentary on page 398 states "it is not the intent to limit ENT to constructions consisting of combustible support members. This section is intended to provide a 15-minute thermal barrier as a minimum threshold of acceptability." However, I do not know if this same thought process was intended or should apply to section 518.4(C) because this section involves Assembly Halls, and the intent of the code may have been to offer better protection for assembly halls than what is required in section 362.10. In summary, can non-metallic tubing and conduit in assembly halls simply be concealed in walls, floors and ceilings with a 15 minute thermal membrane (as is allowed in section 362.10) regardless of how the walls, floors and ceilings are constructed? Or are we to require the floors, walls and ceilings to meet a 15 minute finish membrane as a tested-listed assembly? The issue at hand locally is whether a steel stud/metal frame assembly with 5/8" X sheetrock can be used, or must a system with wood framing be used as found in tested/listed assemblies (referring to the FPN found after section 518.4 (C). If there is any way to expedite an answer, it would be greatly appreciated. We have been trying to solve this for days and I am of the opinion the section 518.4(C) could be applied in either direction. Thank you for your assistance. 2/22/2006 FW:Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC ,t-~. Page 1 of3 (,~ Benner, Kevin From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 7:33 AM To: Benner, Kevin; Kraft, Warren P. Subject: FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC I will "kraft" a response to forward to all involved in the previous melee. Pun intended. -----Original Message~---- From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Sent: Friday, February 10,20067:31 AM To: 'Sargent, Jeffrey' Subject: RE: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Thank you. I want to share this primarily for the purpose of demonstrating that this office was not creating its own interpretation. Rather this office has a solid grasp of the requirements for this code section. Obviously, the State of Wisconsin Division of Safety & Buildings as the AHJ, can and has rendered a differing opinion/direction in this regard. It's reassuring to know that my staff has the correct understanding of this code section. I appreciate your efforts. Allyn Dannhoff -----Original Message----- From: Sargent, Jeffrey [mailto:jsargent@NFPA.org] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 20064: 17 PM To: adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wi.us Cc: Carpenter, James (E-mail);donald.j.talka@us.ul.com; Vondrasek, Bob; Henderson, Carol Subject: RE: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC To: Allyn Dannhoff, Director of Inspection Services From: Jeffrey Sargent, NFPA Senior Electrical Specialist Date: 2/9/06 Section 518.4(C) in the 2005 NEC permits the use of rigid nonmetallic conduit and electrical nonmetallic tubing within walls, floors, ceilings and above suspended ceilings of assembly occupancies provided that the assembly (wall covering and supporting structure) provide a minimum 15 - minute finish rating. The 15 - minute finish rating is established in a compilation of listings of fire-rated assemblies that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction. This section does not open the door for the assembly to be constructed of materials other than those identified in the listings of fire-rated assemblies that provide a 15-minute finish rating. It should be noted that by its location in Chapter 5 of the NEC, the requirements of Article 518 may amend or modify the general requirements of Chapters 1 through 4. In this case, the bar has been raised for the use of these methods in assembly occupancies and this provision is more restrictive than the general rules for uses permitted in 352.10 for RNC and 362.10 for ENT. The substantiation for this proposal that resulted in the inclusion of this provision (first included as Exception NO.3 to 518-4 in the 1996 NEC) indicated that due to the type of 2/22/2006 FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC .." Page 2 of3 occupancy covered in this article, the need to provide enhanced protection for the nonmetallic wiring methods was achieved through strict adherence to the use of assemblies identified as being able to provide the 15 minute finish rating as described in the current fine print note following 518.4(C) and that the rules for assembly occupancies were indeed more restrictive than the general installation allowances. As with any requirement of the NEe, 90.4 allow the authority having jurisdiction to permit alternative approaches to compliance where equivalency can be demonstrated and documented. This correspondence is not a Formal Interpretation issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any opinion expressed is the personal opinion of the author, and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspongence is neither intended, nor should be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services. We are on the Web!! Visit out home page at www.nfpa.org NFPA e-mail addresses are as follows: National Electrical Code: NEC@NFPA.org Life Safety Code: LSC@NFPA.org National Fire Alarm Code: FIREALARM@NFPA.org Sprinklers: NFPA13@NFPA.org Hazardous Materials/Chemical: HAZCHEM@NFPA.ORG Fire Investigations:INVESTIGATIONS @NFPA.ORG Marine Fire Protection: MARINE@NFPA.org library: Library@NFPA.org Customer Service: Custserv@NFPA.org ---Original Message--- From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:50 PM To: 'nfpa70@nfpa.org' Subject: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEe Allyn Dannhoff, Director of Inspection Services City of Oshkosh Member ID 419420 phone 920-236-5045. Dear Sir or Mam; We have the following situation and seek your direction. We have a restaurant/tavern (Assembly Hall) being developed in a non-combustible building, 7 stories tall. When the building was built in 2002, the first floor was left vacant for future commercial tenant development. Floors 2-7 are apartments. The electric that is supplied to the upper floors is fed from the basement. All of the wiring as it runs through the first floor is in rigid non-metallic conduit. We have identified that section 518.4(C) requires this non-metallic conduit to be concealed behind walls, floors, ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has a least a 15 minute Finnish rating as identified in listings of fire rated assemblies. 2/2212006 FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC '" Page 3 of3 This has caused some difference of opinions with interpretation and application. Should this be applied in a manner in which a tested/listed assembly that provides a 15 minute finish rating is used or is this simply meant to require a membrane/material that provides a 15 minute thermal barrier and the code only stated "as identified in listing of fire rated assemblies" as a way to identify what wall/floor/ceiling covering materials are allowed to satisfy this requirement. I see that the 2005 NEC Handbook commentary for 362.10 offers a more in-depth analysis of this question. Specifically, the commentary on page 398 states "it is not the intent to limit ENT to constructions consisting of combustible support members. This section is intended to provide a 15-minute thermal barrier as a minimum threshold of acceptability." However, I do not know if this same thought process was intended or should apply to section 518.4(C) because this section involves Assembly Halls, and the intent of the code may have been to offer better protection for assembly halls than what is required in section 362.10. In summary, can non-metallic tubing and conduit in assembly halls simply be concealed in walls, floors and ceilings with a 15 minute thermal membrane (as is allowed in section 362.10) regardless of how the walls, floors and ceilings are constructed? Or are we to require the floors, walls and ceilings to meet a 15 minute finish membrane as a tested-listed assembly? The issue at hand locally is whether a steel stud/metal frame assembly with 5/8" X sheetrock can be used, or must a system with wood framing be used as found in tested/listed assemblies (referring to the FPN found after section' 518.4(C). If there is any way to expedite an answer, it would be greatly appreciated. We have been trying to solve this for days and I am of the opinion the section 518.4(C) could be applied in either direction. Thank you for your assistance. 2/22/2006 FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Page 1 of3 '''' Benner, Kevin From: Noe, Brian Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:13 AM To: Jill Witt (E-mail) Cc: Benner, Kevin Subject: Finish ratings Last week when we talked, you apologized for giving uS bad advice on the finish rating issue. I explained that your advice was in fact not bad, and was further supported by an informal interpretation we received from NFPA. The following is message is the response we received from NFPA.. I wanted to forward this to you so you didn't go on thinking you gave us the wrong information. Feel free to share this with the others in your office, that may have been involved in this project. Thanks again for all you help, Brian Noe Building Systems Consultant City of Oshkosh Inspection Services (920) 236-5051 -----Origina1 Message----- From: Sargent, Jeffrey [mailto:jsargent@NFP A.org] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 20064:17 PM To: adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wi.us . Cc: Carpenter, James (E-mail);donald.j.talka@us.ul.com; Vondrasek, Bob; Henderson, Carol Subject: RE: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC To: Allyn Dannhoff, Director of Inspection Services From: Jeffrey Sargent, NFPA Senior Electrical Specialist Date: 2/9/06 Section 518.4(C) in the 2005 NEC permits the use of rigid nonmetallic conduit and electrical nonmetallic tubing within walls, floors, ceilings and above suspended ceilings of assembly occupancies provided that the assembly (wall covering and supporting structure) provide a minimum 15 - minute finish rating. The 15 - minute finish rating is established in a compilation of listings of fire- rated assemblies that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction. This section does not open the door for the assembly to be constructed of materials other than those identified in the listings of fire-rated assemblies that provide a 15-minute finish rating. It should be noted that by its location in Chapter 5 of the NEC, the requirements of Article 518 may amend or modify the general requirements of Chapters 1 through 4. In this case, the bar has been raised for the use of these methods in assembly occupancies and this provision is more restrictive than the general rules for uses permitted in 352.10 for RNC and 362.10 for ENT. The substantiation for this proposal that resulted in the inclusion of this provision (first included as Exception NO.3 to 2/27/2006 FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Page 2 of3 "" 518-4 in the 1996 NEC) indicated that due to the type of occupancy covered in this article, the need to provide enhanced protection for the nonmetallic wiring methods was achieved through strict adherence to the use of assemblies identified as being able to provide the 15 minute finish rating as described in the current fine print note following 518.4(C) and that the rules for assembly occupancies were indeed more restrictive than the general installation allowances. As with any requirement of the NEC, 90.4 allow the authority having jurisdiction to permit alternative approaches to compliance where equivalency can be demonstrated and documented. This correspondence is not a Formal Interpretation issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any opinion expressed is the personal opinion of the author, and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services. We are on the Web!! Visit out home page at www.nfpa.org NFPA e-mail addresses are as follows: National Electrical Code: NEC@NFPA.org Life Safety Code: LSC@NFPA.org National Fire Alarm Code: FIREALARM@NFPA.org Sprinklers: NFPA13@NFPA.org Hazardous Materials/Chemical: HAZCHEM@NFPA.ORG Fire Investigations:INVESTIGATIONS @NFPA.ORG Marine Fire Protection: MARINE@NFPA.org library: Library@NFPA.org Customer Service: Custserv@NFPA.org ---Original Message---- From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:50 PM To: 'nfpa70@nfpa.org' Subject: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Allyn Dannhoff, Director of Inspection Services City of Oshkosh Member ID 419420 phone 920-236-5045. Dear Sir or Mam; We have the following situation and seek your direction. We have a restaurant/tavern (Assembly Hall) being developed in a non-combustible building, 7 stories tall. When the building was built in 2002, the first floor was left vacant for future commercial tenant development. Floors 2-7 are apartments. The electric that is supplied to the upper floors is fed from the basement. All of the wiring as it runs through the first floor is in rigid non-metallic conduit. We have identified that section 518.4(C) requires this non-metallic conduit to be concealed behind walls, floors, ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has a least a 15 minute Finnish rating as identified in listings of fire rated assemblies. 2/27/2006 FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Page 3 of3 This has caused some difference of opinions with interpretation and application. Should this be applied in a manner in which a tested/listed assembly that provides a 15 minute finish rating is used or is this simply meant to require a membrane/material that provides a 15 minute thermal barrier and the code only stated "as identified in listing of fire rated assemblies" as a way to identify what wall/floor/ceiling covering materials are allowed to satisfy this requirement. I see that the 2005 NEC Handbook commentary for 362.10 offers a more in-depth analysis of this question. Specifically, the commentary on page 398 states "it is not the intent to limit ENT to constructions consisting of combustible support members. This section is intended to provide a 15-minute thermal barrier as a minimum threshold of acceptability." However, I do not know if this same thought process was intended or should apply to section 518.4(C) because this section involves Assembly Halls, and the intent of the code may have been to offer better protection for assembly halls than what is required in section 362.10. In summary, can non-metallic tubing and conduit in assembly halls simply be concealed in walls, floors and ceilings with a 15 minute thermal membrane (as is allowed in section 362.10) regardless of how the walls, floors and ceilings are constructed? Or are we to require the floors, walls and ceilings to meet a 15 minute finish membrane asa tested-listed assembly? The issue at hand locally is whether a steel stud/metal frame assembly with 5/8" X sheetrock can be used, or must a system with wood framing be used as found in tested/listed assemblies (referring to the FPN found after section 518.4 (C). If there is any way to expedite an answer, it would be greatly appreciated. We have been trying to solve this for days and I am of the opinion the section 518.4(C) could be applied in either direction. Thank you for your assistance. 2/27/2006 Secti9.ll 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC ~ Page 1 of2 Kevin From: Sent: To: Dannhoff, Allyn J. Monday, February 27,20067:32 AM Benner, Kevin Subject: FW: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC (Log #24820) MH It would seem that NFPA staff has differing opinions, interpretations on this topic also. Maybe this will result in some clarifying language in the next version of the handbook. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hlbert [mailto:hilbert@metrocast.net) Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:49 AM To: adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wi.us Cc: James W. Carpenter; Donald J. Talka; Carol Henderson Subject: RE: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC (Log #24820) MH To: Allyn J. Dannhoff From: Mark R. Hilbert, Advisory Service Staff Dear Mr. Dannhoff: As I understand your question, you are asking if the Rigid Nonmetallic Conduit, installed in the specific occupancies described in Section 518.4 (C), must be concealed within a wall assembly that has a 15-minute finish rating or concealed behind a material that has a 15-minute finish rating. In my opinion, this section would require the material that is providing the thermal barrier (Gypsum wallboard, etc.) to have at least a 15-minute finish rating. I agree this is the same thought process described in the Handbook commentary to Section 362.10. I hope this answers your question and addresses your concern. CC: James w. Carpenter, Chair NEC-TCC Donald J. Talka, Chair NEC-P15 Important Notice: This correspondence is not a Formal Interpretation issued pursuant to NFP A Regulations. Any opinion expressed is the personal opinion of the author, and does not necessarily represent the official position ofthe NFP A or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services. Weare on the Web!! Visit out home page at "'-":'':W-,-nfu.~&rg NFP A e-mail addresses are as follows: National Electrical Code: ~lK~D1REGT@NEPA,-Qrg Life Safety Code: LSC@NEI~AJrrg National Fire Alarm Code: FIREALARM@NFPA.org Sprinklers: NEPAJ.3@...NEPA,QIg Hazardous Materials/Chemical: l:LAZGHEJvl@NEPA,.QRG Fire Investigations: INVESTIGATIONS @NFPA.ORG Marine Fire Protection: MARlNE@NEPA,m::g library:LibIary@NEPA,Qrg Customer Service:CJ1~S.ITY~NEP A,org 2/27/2006 Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC ".:\ Page 2 of2 From: Dannhoff, Allyn J. [mailto:adannhoff@ci.oshkosh.wLus] Posted At: Monday, February 06,20065:50 PM Posted To: EE Pool Conversation: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Subject: Section 518(C)4.- 2005 NEC Allyn Dannhoff, Director of Inspection Services City of Oshkosh Member 10 419420 phone 920-236-5045. Dear Sir or Mam; We have the following situation and seek your direction. We have a restaurant/tavern (Assembly Hall) being developed in a non-combustible building, 7 stories tall. When the building was built in 2002, the first floor was left vacant for future commercial tenant development. Floors 2-7 are apartments. The electric that is supplied to the upper floors is fed from the basement. All of the wiring as it runs through the first floor is in rigid non-metallic conduit. We have identified that section 518.4(C) requires this non-metallic conduit to be concealed behind walls,f1oors, ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has a least a 15 minute Finnish rating as identified in listings of fire rated assemblies. This has caused some difference of opinions with interpretation and application. Should this be applied in a manner in which a tested/listed assembly that provides a 15 minute finish rating is used or is this simply meant to require a membrane/material that provides a 15 minute thermal barrier and the code only stated "as identified in listing of fire rated assemblies" as a way to identify what wall/floor/ceiling covering materials are allowed to satisfy this requirement. I see that the 2005NEC Handbook commentary for 362.10 offers a more in-depth analysis of this question. Specifically, the commentary on page 398 states "it is not the intent to limit ENT to constructions consisting of combustible support members. This section is intended to provide a 15-minute thermal barrier as a minimum threshold of acceptability." However, I do not know if this same thought process was intended or should apply to section 518.4(C) because this section involves Assembly Halls, and the intent of the code may have been to offer better protection for assembly halls than what is required in section 362.10. In summary, can non-metallic tubing and conduit in assembly halls simply be concealed in walls, floors and ceilings with a 15 minute thermal membrane (as is allowed in section 362.10) regardless of how the walls, floors and ceilings are constructed? Or are we to require the floors, walls and ceilings to meet a 15 minute finish membrane as a tested-listed assembly? If there is any way to expedite an answer, it would be greatly appreciated. We have been trying to solve this for days and I am of the opinion the section 518.4(C) could be applied in either direction. Thank you for your assistance. 2/27/2006 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main1 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main2 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main3 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main4 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main5 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main6 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main7 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main8 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main9 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main10 Taken by Kevin Benner 100 N Main11