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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06.08.2022 Rental Housing Advisory Board MinutesRental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 1 Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes June 8, 2022 Present: Lynnsey Erickson, TJ Hobbs, Donn Lord, Todd Hutchison, Timothy Ernst Excused: Saida Egal, Ally Stribbling Staff: Kelly Nieforth; Community Development Director, John Zarate; Inspection Services Manager I. Call to Order Nieforth called the meeting to order at 3:32 pm. II. Welcome New Members – Saida Egal & Ally Stribbling The newly appointed members were not in attendance. III. Roll Call Roll call was taken and a quorum declared present. Nieforth stated there is a vacant regular seat and vacant alternate seat. IV. Citizen Statements There were no citizen statements. V. Approval Meeting Minutes – April 13, 2022 Motion to approve by Erickson. Seconded by Hutchison. Hobbs stated they wanted to provide clarification regarding paragraph 3 on page 5 of the minutes. It’s either a typo or they said the wrong thing. They meant that the work that the board is doing with the brochure is important, not the work that they’re doing as an individual with the brochure. They’re obviously not doing the brochure on their own. The minutes of the April 13, 2022 meeting were approved with a correction to page 5 to reflect the clarification provided by Hobbs. VI. Partner Organizations Update UW-Oshkosh Off-Campus Housing Issues and Resources Erickson stated the student representative was unable to make it today. She asked if there’s other Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 2 thoughts or ideas on what exactly the board would like to learn about off-campus housing. Ernst replied it’s a good idea for the student population to be informed about their rights and responsibilities as renters and empowered to communicate with each other in the relatively safe space of the University, a space that is not subject to observation from outside forces. There’s a website offered by the student association as an alternative to an organization, but the website doesn’t satisfy the same things as a real organization. Even though tenants can leave feedback on landlords, landlords still have the ability to pay the website for higher rankings on search results and things of that nature. Even if it helps with some of the background research portion of being a renter in Oshkosh, which he thinks is very important, the website by itself doesn’t satisfy the rest of it. He would encourage providing as many resources as possible to students regarding their rights and how to organize. Nieforth stated they will keep it on the agenda for the next meeting and asked Erickson to work on coordinating with the Student Association for future meetings. ADVOCAP Rental Assistance Scheer stated ADVOCAP has given out around $2,000,000 since the last time she talked with the board. The average amount of assistance per unduplicated household is $3,865.00. They’ve helped approximately 1,250 people in the City of Oshkosh. Over 15% of the people they’re serving are over 18 months, meaning they’ve received the maximum amount of funding available to them. ADVOCAP is having a mandatory meeting with the state at the end of the month to provide guidance on that. After nine months, they usually start drilling down and trying to find if there are other resources available. Employment and long-term COVID are common problems. Finding housing is incredibly difficult. A number of landlords are saying that they don’t’ want to work with the homeless or refugees because there’s no cost incentive to do so. Some landlords who took on people with no income previously are no longer doing so because it didn’t work out well for them. Scheer that ADVOCAP is starting to use the Community Development Block Grant (CDBG)-CV funds available through the City. Six months of assistance is available through CDBG-CV. ADVOCAP was nine weeks behind on their waitlist, and now they’re three to four weeks behind. They’re still getting a lot of requests for motel vouchers due to the lack of rental units available. They aren’t moving forward with that and suggest that applicants work with ESI. Some hotels are hesitant to take on long term rental agreements and they’re not a great place for families to stay long-term. More people are moving which has created some available units. They are expecting to be hit hard again in August when kids return to school. They have 14 people working on this and it can take hours for a single application. They’ve made some changes internally and increased their productivity to help as many people as they can. Lord asked if the parameters have changed. Scheer replied the parameters are the same. One unintended consequence is that landlords who have seen the flexibility of this program have been raising their rents because they can pay it with WERA funds. Some landlords have been sending a lot of their tenants to them. Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 3 Lord asked if the reduced wait time is because fewer people are applying now that unemployment is at a record low. Scheer replied she wouldn’t say that because more than 50% of the people they’re working with are repeaters, meaning they’ve already assisted them with past due or future rent. They have a better system in place, so the connect time is more efficient. They receive around 300 calls per day with requests for assistance. Unemployment is low, but some families haven’t been able to return to where they were before COVID. Lord asked how paying rent in advance works. Scheer replied if someone was out of work for 60 days and was unable to pay their April and May rent because they’re returning to work part-time, they would pay rent for that person through August because they pay in three month increments. They recertify the income coming into the household each time, it’s not automatic or guaranteed. Scheer stated they’re doing Wisconsin Homeowners Help for homeowners facing foreclosure. Many families can no longer afford their mortgage. If they sell their house, there’s a lack of housing available to move to, and rent is often higher than their mortgage payment. It’s a huge issue they’re seeing. Lord asked what the mandatory meeting with the state is about. Scheer replied they are going to provide guidance on the individuals who received the maximum of 18 months of assistance. She suspects the Treasury Department has had to revisit the program given everything that has happened in the past 18 months. Wisconsin has been between 6th and 8th in the nation in terms of spending the funds. ADVOCAP spends between $300,000 and $400,000 every week. The funding is still there and there’s still a need for it. She asked Lord if he was hearing something different at the Apartment Association. Lord replied sometimes he wonders if the repeaters are taking advantage of the situation, like someone receiving nine months in past due rent and three months in future rent. He asked what percentage are repeaters. Scheer replied 50% are repeaters. Ernst stated the continual need for aid is not proof of deception. That’s not how poverty works. Scheer replied there is a small percentage of people who are trying to be deceptive. The government provided a lot of assistance to farmers a few years ago and some of those people are now being charged with fraud because it caught up with them. The Treasury Department will follow up and hold people accountable if they’re providing false information. They can’t spend their time and energy trying to figure out who is being honest and who isn’t. They sign the attestation and the Treasury Department will sort it out in the end. Hutchison asked if the six months of CDBG-CV funds from the city have the same terms. Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 4 Scheer replied she thinks the city requires applicants to be at 60% county median income instead of 80%. They are paying rent and utilities. They’re finding that people are paying utilities more than they are paying rent. Late fees have also increased. Scheer asked if these updates are helpful. Several RHAB members replied affirmatively. Scheer stated she will provide any changes to the program as they become available. RHAB thanked Scheer for her time. Winnebago County Eviction Prevention Task Force – Eviction Data Erickson shared updated data through May 31st. About 50% of the eviction filings for 2022 resulted in an eviction judgement. Typically higher numbers of evictions take place in the summer months. Lord stated the trends for evictions are opposite what they usually are, with them typically being lower in the winter and higher in the summer. He asked if there was a reason for that. Erickson replied she’s not sure and they would need to see how June, July, and August go. Ernst asked if any moratoriums expired in February. Erickson replied they expired last year. She can’t explain the spike in February. She is open to suggestions if people would like to see different data. Lord asked if they were on track to have the same amount of evictions as last year. Erickson replied affirmatively. Lord replied it’s interesting that they’re trending down over summer. Ernst replied they’re not trending down. They don’t have the data yet. VII. Inspections Staff Update Zarate shared the Facebook page with the board. Board members can contact staff if they would like anything specific posted. Ernst asked if there is anything that staff won’t post. Nieforth replied they need to use some discretion and may need to run it by City attorneys. Zarate stated they’re seeing fewer negative comments than when they first setup the Facebook page. Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 5 Complaint Based Rental Inspections 2017-2021 Nieforth provided a map of the code violations from 2017-2021. Lord asked if these were rental and owner-occupied. Zarate replied they’re only rental. Hutchison asked if there were some commercial properties included. Zarate replied affirmatively. Ernst asked if there were any trends indicated in the data that would be useful for them to know. Zarate replied the areas where a lot of the violations occur are the areas that they target for rental registry mailings. These areas were designated by the board. Ernst asked if these were the complaint-based or if the voluntary inspections were included. Zarate replied it includes both. Ernst stated the area around campus seems pretty clustered with violations, but there’s no part of the city that’s free of these issues. There’s potential for violations throughout the community. Hobbs stated they wanted to share something someone shared with them to bring to the meeting. Similar to how restaurants encounter a health inspector and aren’t allowed to serve food until things are brought up to code, an argument could be made that landlords should not be able to collect rent until their property is brought back up to code. Fines issued for violations could be used to support low income housing or affordable housing including the warming shelter. If that’s not an option, then they would be fined x dollars per month and that revenue could be redistributed to folks that are struggling. It’s essentially making sure the incentive is there because it doesn’t seem like a fine is enough of an incentive to resolve issues. Nieforth replied staff talk about the issue of the carrot or the stick often. With the housing study, they’re looking at different programs to incentivize people to make those improvements. The value of the property would increase, but the tenant would have a safe code-compliant living space. It’s sometimes difficult to collect the fines and to get the work completed with violations. Zarate replied that many of the violations are corrected within the timeframe allotted. The major life- safety issues are taken care of quickly because the landlord realizes that the City could condemn the unit. Hobbs stated that properties with chipping paint and un-mowed lawns should be issued violations if they haven’t been to increase property value and improve the look and feel of the downtown. They asked if the City can create temporary housing so people aren’t out on the street if they’re going after Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 6 the repairs that are needed. Being unable to find a new and safe place to live is a big fear for people they’ve talked with. They understand the hotel vouchers not working with EAA, but maybe there’s something other than hotels. There has got to be more they can do. Day by Day is expanding, but it’s just not enough. Whatever action item they can bring to Council would be like we want to build something here and let’s sign off on that. Something to that effect would be helpful for everybody. It would be something like a step up from living in a vehicle. It doesn’t have to be grand or somewhere folks would want to stay, although ideally it would be. It would just be a place to exist while until repairs are complete or until they find their next unit. At the very least they need to open up parking for people living in their own vehicles. They need to realize that’s happening, and let that sink in for a minute, but also not ticket people who don’t have housing. That’s the least they can do while they scramble to figure out what to do next because things are changing fast and they don’t expect to have answers today. Rental Registry Inspection Program Zarate stated staff started sending out letters for the rental registry program in April after a two year hiatus. Staff sent out 81 notices in April and received one response. Staff sent out 92 in May and received three responses. Nieforth stated they’re not getting the response they were hoping for. It takes a lot of staff time to generate the letters. It’s something they’ll continue to do, but they’re not receiving a positive response for voluntary inspections. Lord replied this is kind of minutiae, but when Georgia Gardens was turned into condos, a lot of people couldn’t sell their condos so they turned them into rentals. It’s a real problem when you have one building that used to be a rental and now you have a lot of landlords in one building. He asked if they sent one to every unit in Georgia Gardens. Zarate replied they receive a letter if the mailing address is not the same as the parcel address. Some are returned as not a rental because it’s vacant or a summer home, but generally if the mailing address doesn’t match the parcel address, it’s probably a rental. Lord replied Georgia Gardens would have multiple landlords. Zarate replied staff would know that because each one has a separate mailing address because they were turned into condos. Lord asked how many people staff have e-mail addresses for. Zarate replied they have their e-mail address if they’re registered. Lord asked what percentage they have e-mail addresses for. Zarate replied he doesn’t know. Nieforth stated they send it out, but it’s still voluntary. Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 7 Hobbs asked why it was still voluntary and if it’s in the interest of the people who live in Oshkosh. Ernst replied the program has to be voluntary because landlords got state laws changed to prevent the city, specifically Oshkosh, from enacting a mandatory ordinance. It was outlawed in the omnibus landlord tenant bill that Lord spoke on behalf of to the state legislature. The late fees problem is also a direct result of that legislation because it allows landlords to charge unlimited fines and fees. The bill basically neutered the City’s ability to meaningfully implement the program. That plus the campaign of misinformation which ran in the city at the time that the ordinance was proposed and general mistrust of government have brought the program to where it is today. Nieforth replied they have talked about finding an easier way to reach out to the folks instead of mailing the letters. Lord asked if there was a way to put together a good e-mail list because that would mean a lot. Having a good list of all the housing providers is pretty crucial for communication. Ernst asked if Lord encourages Apartment Association members to register. Lord replied it’s not something they talk about very often, but he would urge them to do so if it came up. Nieforth replied it’s not a perfect list. It doesn’t include every single rental in the city and staff only have e-mail addresses if the owner has volunteered that information with a permit or for the rental registry program. There are some limitations as Ernst pointed out. Lord replied it would be nice if staff focused on putting together a really nice e-mail list of housing providers. Zarate replied they could collect those e-mail addresses if it was mandated by the state, but it’s not. Nieforth replied it’s not the proactive program they were hoping for. Most of the inspections are complaint-based. It takes a lot of staff time for very few responses. They may take a look at the program to see if they can limit the amount of staff time involved and still make sure tenants have a safe place to live. Hobbs replied it’s kind of terrifying though because tenants have nowhere to stay if it’s not safe. Nieforth agreed, adding that the problem is compounded by a lack of affordable rental units in the city. Lord replied there’s a lack of units period. Hutchison asked if staff could send the information to every address in an area instead of taking the time to go through and determine which addresses are rentals and which are owner occupied. Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 8 Nieforth replied they could, but they try not to be too invasive. They have a pretty good idea of which ones are rentals from the data sources they use. It’s not perfect, but they’re hitting the majority of them. Zarate replied they have a pretty good handle on which properties are rentals and the process for figuring that out. The issue is that they don’t receive responses from around 30% of those properties, meaning those properties are not registered as a rental. Lord asked how they can get a more positive relationship going to communicate with those folks. Nieforth replied this group could be a voice by partnering with organizations like the Apartment Association. Lord replied it’s a small organization. Ernst replied he thinks it would help and questions why it hasn’t happened already if Lord thinks the e-mail list is important. Lord replied it’s something they can talk about and he’ll look into posting something on social media. Most landlords only own one or two properties, so they’re not really involved in organizations. Ernst replied that creates more justification for Lord, as president of the Apartment Association, to provide that insight for them. Lord replied he does the best he can, but he can’t get people to participate any more than the City can get people to participate. Ernst replied you’ve also said you haven’t even tried, so even the City being ineffective isn’t an argument. Lord replied he’s just brainstorming ways to improve communication. This is the first time he asked the question about the percentage of e-mail addresses staff have. He knew they didn’t have a lot of them, but he was asking to try and rectify that. Ernst replied he’s all in favor of finding ways to give the program more teeth given the severe limitations from state law. Nieforth replied that’s what they were talking about earlier with the stick and the carrot, trying to find a way to incentivize participation and get these units up to code. Staff are looking at that. Hutchison stated in Milwaukee, you can sign up with e-notify so any time there’s a violation or notice, you receive a notification. You can also set a radius near the property and get notifications for things like car thefts happening in that radius. He asked if that’s something Oshkosh can do. Nieforth replied their system is not as sophisticated. They send violation notices in the mail and via e- Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 9 mail. Hutchison asked if it was automated. Nieforth replied it’s automated if they have the contact information for the parcel. Zarate replied it’s not as sophisticated as Milwaukee. He’s not sure what department regulates that for them. It would probably be a substantial cost to get something like that up and running. Hutchison replied it’s something similar to See Click Fix so you can be informed of things like theft and code violations when you sign up. Zarate replied it’s something they can look into, but hardly any of the housing complaints go through See Click Fix. There might be an automated feature for other things like debris and long grass. Hutchison replied they do cross connection inspections in Milwaukee, so that’ll be something he gets a notification on before he ever gets anything in the mail. You’re notified as soon as it it’s entered for mailing. It’s quicker. Nieforth replied staff can look at Milwaukee and see what they have. Lord asked if there was any way they could coordinate that. Oshkosh Police has a program where you provide your e-mail address and receive an e-mail if anything happens at your property. Nieforth replied she knows it’s geared more toward police, but they can look at that too. VIII. Approve Public Information Campaign – Tenant and Landlord Rights Motion by Hutchison to approve the Public Information Campaign – Tenant and Landlord Rights. Second by Erickson. Ernst stated he knows this was on the agenda for the cancelled meeting last month. He tried to address all of the issues brought up from the April meeting. There were some questions about using the term “thrive,” and it was something that came up during brainstorming as something catchy and easy to remember. The goal today would be to either approve or not approve. He did his best with his limited graphic design and word processing skills. Hopefully by now all of the grammatical problems have been resolved. Hutchison asked if there is a poster as well. Ernst replied that the poster would basically be an enhanced version of the logo, but for the sake of efficiency they decided to focus on the brochure for now. Motion carried 5-0. Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 10 Ernst stated for the next meeting, he would like to generate a list of locations where they’d like to distribute the brochures. Feel free to e-mail those to staff as you generate them. The board will come up with a plan for distribution. Unless there’s major changes in the law in the short term, the information in the brochure is pretty stable in that regard. IX. Housing Study Recommendations Nieforth stated rent to own and rent a room are two recommendations the board discussed previously. Rent to own is included in the housing study. Rent a room was an idea from a former board member. She would like to pass their recommendations along to Council. Council had a workshop a couple weeks ago and there will be more workshops to come. She wanted to make sure the board still wanted to recommend these programs. Lord asked if they’re just looking at rent to own now and it’s not an existing program. Nieforth replied they’re just looking at how, for example, a landlord could setup an agreement with a tenant for the tenant to purchase the property after a certain amount of time. Lord replied he thinks that’s a very valid thing. The percentage of rentals in Oshkosh has increased around 45%. They can still keep the rental stock as a duplex. He doesn’t know the average age of landlords is in Oshkosh, but he thinks they’re past 60. It’s a lot easier to sell it to the person already living there. Hobbs replied it’s better for the tenant as well so they don’t have to worry about having someone buy the property who doesn’t care as much as their old landlord. It’s good for everybody. Ernst replied one of the things housing study indicated as important is accommodating emerging markets. He is wondering which emerging markets this policy accommodates because he wasn’t sure. Nieforth replied she would recommend they view the May 24th workshop. They came up with some ideas they wanted to pursue right away and one of them was to encourage different types of housing. That includes allowing more duplexes and rentals, where maybe you live in one half and have a rental space and income coming in from the other half. Those are emerging trends that they’re seeing. They’re getting creative with different types of housing like accessory dwelling units. Ernst asked if it’s the “if we build it they will come” approach. Nieforth replied those are easy things to do if they adjust their zoning code. Ernst replied zoning code changes seem to be a major, crucial part of housing policy moving forward. That’s consistent throughout all the literature. Nieforth replied it’s definitely trending right now and a lot of communities are looking at that. Ernst replied he thinks oversight would be important in a rent to own policy. There are a lot of Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 11 recommendations that such a policy be run through a non-profit organization that liaises with different neighborhood associations and similar groups in the area. Nieforth replied it’s something they’re looking at. A lot of communities have things like Neighbor Works or other groups that focus on rehab or low income housing in central city neighborhood areas. Ernst replied another benefit of that oversight is that it allows for tying of the program to upkeep and repairs to increase property values as the tenants get ready to own. It also prevents things like milking the rent to own past the value of the property. Hobbs replied they agree, adding it’s important to put this into an actionable item upon which Council can vote. Ernst replied he doesn’t know what type of action they’re looking for here, or if they’re just saying they generally approve of the rent to own idea. Nieforth replied these are the two ideas that floated to the top of the conversation. The rent to own struck a chord with this group in terms of encouraging ownership while improving upkeep of rental units as a form of succession planning almost. Hobbs asked how specific they’re looking for in terms of guidelines. They asked if staff are looking for a consensus or for details of what the policy should be. Nieforth replied staff can just say that the board is supportive of the rent to own program when they’re talking with Council. Hobbs replied they don’t pretend to know much about zoning, but they’re happy to learn. They know people are way more educated about zoning than they are. They asked if everyone was on board with the programs. Nieforth replied she’s a little unsure about the consensus for the rent a room program. It was an idea from a former board member and she doesn’t have a lot of details on that one. Ernst replied the rent a room idea relates to opening up those short term transitional housing opportunities and protecting the couch surfers. This fits more into that framework than what their former board member had in mind. He thinks it’s an interesting idea that adds units to the pool, preserves character of neighborhoods, and provides an opportunity to homeowners, but there’s a lot of enforcement questions regarding leases and regulatory expectations. That’s where his confusion and concern lies. Hobbs asked if it would need to be month to month for couch surfers, for example. They don’t think it has to be one or the other. The board will need to figure out what the smartest proposal is. They’re thinking technically, like how many bathrooms are in the unit. They can’t imagine many folks wanting to stay sharing a bathroom for a whole year and sign their name to that. They don’t think that’s realistic, but they’re sure there’s some people out there that would. Perhaps leaning more on month- Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 12 to-month for that would be a way to think about it and it’s also a way for the City to get its feet wet, see if they like program, and try it for six months. They think they talked about that at previous meetings, basically decriminalizing people who let a friend crash at their place for six months while finding a job. That’s essentially another way of saying this. Nieforth replied they know that happens, which is why they talked about the accessory dwelling units. Building codes need to be met to make sure people are safe, but they’re also looking to see if it would make sense to change the zoning code to allow for more flexibility. In certain districts, there are a certain number of unrelated people who live there. It’s a balancing act between that flexibility and safety for the people living there. Staff know that people are in different situations, so it’s not a cookie cutter approach. Lord asked if they’re talking about larger homes or an older person with a caretaker’s apartment. Nieforth replied something like a mother-in-law suite. Lord replied one of the things about renting a room is the need to create a separate entrance and he doesn’t know what that would be with city codes. Nieforth replied it would be more about building code and talking through those options. Lord replied because they are in a really, really bad crisis. Nieforth replied they want to see what they can do in their code to accommodate the different types of housing that they’re seeing right now. Hutchison stated they need to be careful about the difference between renting a room and a rooming house. It’s the difference between an owner-occupant renting out a room in their house versus somebody that’s renting out rooms in a four bedroom home. That’s where he thinks they end up with a lot more problems than just an owner-occupant renting out a room in their home. Ernst stated to summarize, generally the board thinks that rent to own with a fair and viable regulatory framework and oversight is preferable. When it comes to rent a room, the board does not think that particular policy is viable, but the board does support looking into the zoning laws that would allow for more accessory dwelling units. Hutchison stated even though it turned into renting the whole house, Airbnb started as renting a room or a couch. To have an Airbnb in Oshkosh, you need to have state license and a city license. Nieforth replied the City does have a license, but they’re mindful of the situation with EAA. Licenses are required for longer term rentals. They’re different from a larger tourist city where it’s stricter because they see it mainly with EAA and larger events. Hutchison asked if someone renting out through Airbnb has to get a license through the City. Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 13 Nieforth replied they need a license if they’re renting over a certain number of days per year. They wanted to avoid making people get a license if they’re just renting out for EAA because it’s not the primary use of the property. They need a license and have to register through the city if it’s a year round rental. X. Other Business Ernst stated Rent Smart classes are running now through the month of November. You can sign up at the UW-Extension website. Lord asked if they were all online. Erickson replied she thinks they’re online, but she’s not 100% sure. Lord replied they were all online, he just didn’t know if they were meeting in person yet. Nieforth replied staff would post the information on Facebook. Ernst stated he would also like to have a more in depth discussion about the zoning and code items included in the housing study so that they can put together something actionable for Council. He also like Hobbs’ parking idea about finding ways to protect people living in their vehicles. Hobbs replied it at least show residents that a) the City knows there’s a problem, it’s not easy to fix, but they’re trying, and b) here’s a big, big Band-Aid and it’s not nothing. Some will think it looks bad to acknowledge that there’s people in their vehicles right now and have been for years, but especially now. They feel like taking the higher road and the most morally just path is to admit the City has the problem, admit they’re working on it, and admit that in the meantime here’s a Band-Aid because we care about you as human beings and government is slow. They don’t think anyone in the room would argue with that. Ernst replied if they were to say they want people to sign up and register and leave their name somewhere, then that gives staff the opportunity to perform outreach for additional services. Nieforth replied that does happen a lot with the police department. They do come across folks in their car and try to get provide them with services and any help they might need. She will check and see if they have a more concrete number to see how often they’re dealing with that. She asked if it was something they’ve heard in the community about people getting tickets for living their vehicle. Hobbs replied they can tell you as someone who lived in their vehicle briefly, although not in Oshkosh, they didn’t want anyone to know they were doing it. They think the board can understand why people would feel that way. Nieforth replied she understands that and she can maybe look at the tickets to see if it’s an issue here. She knows that if there’s someone living in a city parking lot, for example, they don’t tell them they have to leave. They can stay. Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 14 Ernst replied part of the point is making a statement to the community that says the City has these peoples’ backs officially. It’s really important that staff do those types of things like Nieforth mentioned. Hutchison replied he thinks this is really kind of weird because if he were to rent out a car to somebody for a dollar in his yard, that would not be okay with Inspections. You can’t even leave a car in the grass and now we’re saying we’re advocating to allow people to live in cars when the board was just discussing code violations. He asked how it’s safe and sanitary to live in your car, but it’s not safe and sanitary to live in an apartment with violations. Ernst replied when someone’s living in their car, they’re not paying a landlord to live in unsafe and unsanitary conditions. The hope is that the situation is temporary. Hutchison asked if they were okay with a landlord not charging rent for someone living in an unsafe situation. Ernst replied any housing agreement in the state of Wisconsin, regardless of the amount of rent, is subject to the same standards. Hutchison replied he thinks that as a board it’s wrong-headed to advocate for people living in unsafe and unsanitary conditions which is what they’re doing when they’re advocating for people living in their cars. Ernst asked if Hutchison could explain what he meant by advocate because he’s not saying go live in your vehicle. That’s asinine. Hutchison replied the board is proposing that there be parking lots available for people to park the vehicles they’re living in. Nieforth replied she thinks those parking lots are already in place. They’re not enforcing or giving people tickets or towing them away in the middle of the night. That’s why she asked if it’s something they’re hearing in the community where people have been getting tickets, because that’s certainly something they can look at. Ernst asked if it could be a discussion item for the next meeting so they can do some research before then. Nieforth replied affirmatively. Ernst asked if there were any other items they’d like to discuss on August 10th. Hutchison asked if they get a directive from Council of what they want the board to be advising them on given that this is an advisory board. He’s said this before. He appreciates the information that they get here and they do learn a lot, but it does seem like they’re taking up a lot of staff time, and it’s not Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 15 clear what the goal of this board is. Ernst replied that once again, what the board does is stated in their mission and their action plan. That’s something they all looked at and they all voted on. If the discussion is not going the way he wants it, then he should bring them something they can talk about. Just saying that this isn’t appropriate for this board doesn’t address those problems either. He would be happy to have policy discussions. He wants to have policy discussions and that is what he thinks the board should be advising Council on. Right now they have the unique opportunity to talk to Council about the housing study, which is why the need to have those policy discussion. If there are other things outside of that he wants to talk about, this is the time in the meeting where he can identify items for the next agenda. Hutchison replied his point is that the board is setup by Council to advise them and he doesn’t know what advice Council wants or if they even want any advice. He asked if there is anything they want advice on in the moment or ever. He asked why they’re wasting staff’s time if Council doesn’t want the advice. Hobbs replied the board is here to propose action items to Council and then Council moves forward with them if they are quality items. Nieforth replied the boards and commissions website states that the purpose of the board is to advise staff on the creation of rental housing educational materials and residential rental training programs for landlords and tenants, and to review and make recommendations regarding city policy and changes to the municipal code pertaining to rental housing. The board was created in response to the rental registry program to serve as a platform for landlords and tenants to come together and hopefully compromise on mainly messaging-related projects. That’s why the board is talking about the rental registry program and the housing study. Ernst replied COVID and things have limited their opportunity to act in the last few years. The future is potentially bright, and again, to answer Hutchison’s question, he thinks Council will consider whatever they consider as important for them to consider. He asked Erickson for confirmation. Erickson replied if she can speak on behalf of Council, they’ve setup some goals around housing and actually putting this plan into action. They, as a Council, are open to whatever recommendations this board comes up with because of the housing study. There was no further discussion. For the next meeting, Ernst asked board members to think of places where they’d like the brochures distributed and then the board can figure out how to get the brochures there. XI. Adjournment There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 5:05 PM. (Lord/Erickson)