HomeMy WebLinkAbout12.08.21 RHAB MinutesRental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 1
Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes
December 8, 2021
Present: Lynnsey Erickson, Linda Jevaltas, Todd Hutchison, Timothy Ernst, TJ Hobbs
Excused: Alec Gulan, Lydia Christensen, Donn Lord, Lateria Garrett
Staff: John Zarate; Chief Building Official, Kelly Nieforth; Community Development Director
I. Call to Order
Ernst called the meeting to order at 3:32 pm.
II. Roll Call
Roll call was taken and a quorum declared present.
III. Citizen Statements
There were no citizen statements.
IV. Approval of Minutes – October 13, 2021
The minutes of the August 11, 2021 meeting were approved as written. (Erickson/Jevaltas)
V. ADVOCAP Rental Assistance Update – Lu Scheer, ADVOCAP
Scheer stated that ADVOCAP has provided over $7,000,000 of assistance through the WERA program
alone, $4,232,000 of which was in Winnebago County. 1,000 of the 1,805 households served are in
Winnebago County and they estimate around $3,913 of assistance per household. ESI is behind on
applications and ADVOCAP is five weeks behind. They’ve increased hours and hired more staff who
will start before the holidays, but they receive approximately 36 to 48 new requests for assistance per
day.
Ernst asked if they still have ineligible people applying for assistance.
Scheer replied that the Treasury Department made a determination that college students under the
age of 25 are not eligible for this program unless they’re non-standard with a family situation. They
continue to receive calls from people who have had to rent three or four bedroom apartments because
smaller units are not available. Some landlords are very excited about the opportunity for them to
charge whatever they want because they’re not tied to fair market rent and they pay the utilities.
They’re under the impression they can have at least one year with the tenant and receive everything.
Erickson asked if they’re seeing any barriers or opportunities in terms of community groups who
could help communicate out the needs that they’re seeing.
Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 2
Scheer replied that the lack of affordable housing is the issue. They are restricted with what they can
help people with. Landlords are able to get more than fair market rent and they’re charging it. In Fond
du Lac, there are 100 people on the street because the warming shelter cannot accommodate them. It’s
a tough market and it is not going to get any easier.
Hutchison asked if landlords are charging the increased amounts because they can be reimbursed
through WERA of if they’re charging that amount because it’s what they can get.
Scheer replied that it has to be at fair market rent which includes utilities. They’re also seeing changes
with property management companies setting single standards which is not uncommon. They are not
willing to work with them and they’re not interested in taking on a tenant who has been evicted in the
past even with the money coming from another source. They don’t need to work with their programs
because they’re able to fill their units. It’s a business decision and they can charge more for rent, but
it’s leaving the most vulnerable in the community even more vulnerable. Landlords are not allowing
tenants to have other people staying with them, so couch surfing is no longer an option for many
people. People who were able to do that before are literally living in their cars and on the street.
Hobbs replied that they understand the landlord perspective and it being a business, but housing is a
human right that they have a responsibility to provide for citizens. They need to think not only about
the folks living in their cars and sleeping in parks, but the houses nearby and families who visit those
locations and don’t feel safe there. They need to have some regulations in place to remind people that
housing is essentially a human right. An unchecked system will only lead to more issues. They feel we
have a responsibility to put some regulations in place that are reasonable for all parties.
Jevaltas replied that she believes that there is a law preventing the city from creating any type of rental
standards.
Hobbs replied that they would like more information about that, adding that just because it’s a law
doesn’t mean that it’s good or that it should be a law.
Scheer replied that some landlords are very sensitive to the social obligation they have to help their
communities, but they’re are becoming limited. A lot of people are getting out of rental housing and
selling their properties. She thinks they need some bigger ideas about what to do this winter. There
was already a death on the streets two nights ago with the cold snap. Nobody wants to hear that or be
that community. She’s worried about Day by Day Warming Shelter and shelters in general in the
community. They’re beyond capacity and the population is increasing very quickly.
Jevaltas asked if Nieforth could look to see if there are state statutes or city laws prohibiting caps on
rent.
Nieforth replied affirmatively.
Hutchison stated that they’re going to have less housing with fixed prices. There aren’t fixed prices on
real estate, healthy foods, or hospital stays, but all of a sudden it‘s rental housing that needs to have
Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 3
fixed prices to solve the problem. He thinks that’s the incorrect solution.
Ernst replied that it’s a starting point for a discussion. There are institutional obstacles to these types of
changes in Wisconsin, a lot of which happen at the state level. He really hopes that everyone is at least
acknowledging that what they’ve heard today is a problem and that more productive discussions
need to happen. The fact that other human rights cost money is not a justification for why people
should freeze this winter. We were just told that people are getting out of the business. The problem is
already here. What needs to happen is an effort to prevent further loss of life and to limit the loss of
dignity for these people. Research into this question is going to be absolutely essential for this winter
and winters moving forward.
Scheer replied that another idea might be to incentivize those who do the right thing, rather than
penalizing those who don’t.
Hobbs asked Scheer if ADVOCAP could provide an additional monetary incentive with WERA funds
for landlords who are doing the ethical thing.
Scheer replied that they cannot deviate from the federal regulations. She thinks it would be beneficial
to find out from a landlord what they would be willing to do. With the market being what it is, she
doesn’t know how to encourage landlords to take a risk on people. The purpose of the WERA
program is to help people stay in housing, but they also have a lot of people looking for affordable
housing. The landlords are going to need to be part of the solution and she looks forward to doing
whatever she can to help with that solution.
Jevaltas asked Scheer how many families with children are being deprived of housing.
Scheer replied that 160 of the 280 people on their homeless program list are single. Oshkosh Kids
Foundation has discontinued motel vouchers because they’re not a long term solution. They are great
for overnight and getting out of the cold, but it is not suitable for family life. They continue to look for
innovative ideas and unfortunately the need for a winter shelter.
RHAB thanked Scheer for the update.
VI. Landlord Resources & Eviction Expungement – Michael Rust, Winnebago County Conflict
Resolution Center
Michael Rust stated that Winnebago County Conflict Resolution Center is nonprofit organization and
it is not a part of the county. They provide mediation services for a lot of landlords and tenants with
the goal of preventing an eviction from occurring. They work to find solutions for things like non-
payment of rent or rule violations and then develop a plan to move forward. The goal is to prevent the
eviction from appearing on people’s records so they don’t start the cycle Scheer mentioned.
Rust stated that they’re not seeing a flood of evictions in Winnebago County like they’re seeing
elsewhere. Landlords have done a very good job of finding the right tenants. He and Donn Lord have
worked together on things in the past and he knows the Apartment Association has been a great
Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 4
resource for landlords. Donn is a huge proponent of landlords doing background research on a tenant
before renting to them. He’s been a landlord for many years and has never had to file an eviction
because he does his work on the front end and works with tenants on the back end if they end up in a
situation where they’re unable to make those payments. The Conflict Resolution Center is one of the
resources that Donn and other landlords have used.
Rust stated that expungement is a very specific legal term which is primarily an option for criminal
cases in the state of Wisconsin. Trying to remove an eviction from your record once it has already
happened is a bit different in Wisconsin. They have the Wisconsin Circuit Court Access Program
(CCAP) which easily allows people to access public records within the court system. What they see is
that when people have an eviction on their record, it stays with them for quite some time and is active
and searchable on CCAP for up to twenty years. It’s also unclear, depending on the exact type of case,
whether or not the judgement was ever satisfied. There’s a difference between filing and receiving an
eviction and once something is filed it is immediately searchable on CCAP. Unfortunately they do
hear from tenants that they’re unable to secure funding for an eviction on their record that’s pending
or that was never granted. The only way to expunge an eviction is to seal the public record and
evictions do not fall under one of the reasons why you can seal a court record. So there’s not really a
good way to seal or expunge an eviction. The Director of State Courts, the entity that oversees CCAP,
made a change that any dismissed eviction case will no longer be viewable on CCAP after two years.
It’s still a public record, but no longer viewable on CCAP.
Rust stated that they’re finding individuals who are renting larger units than they need and using
more disposable income than they should as well as individuals who are living in substandard units.
Couch surfing is becoming less and less of an option. Landlords were still able to evict during the
moratorium for reasons other than non-payment of rent having someone stay with you who is not on
the lease was one of those reasons. They are seeing more property managers opposed to single unit
landlords.
Jevaltas asked if Rust was referring to the Legal Tune Up program that was in Madison and has now
been extended throughout the state.
Rust replied that he was referring specifically to the program within CCAP itself.
Jevaltas asked if Rust had ever heard of the Legal Tune Up program.
Rust replied that he is unfamiliar with that program.
Jevaltas replied that it’s a way for people to have their eviction expunged if certain criteria are met.
Hutchison stated that he was thinking about what an incentive might be for landlords. If the county or
an organization could act like a co-signer and guarantee payments if an eviction were to occur, it
would eliminate that risk. Its good business practice for landlords to do their due diligence up front,
but that doesn’t solve the problem of not renting to certain tenants because they have something on
their record.
Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 5
Rust replied that he agrees that due diligence is what should be done from a business perspective, but
it isn’t really helping to give someone a second chance. When he first rented in Wisconsin, he received
a free TV for signing a one year lease. It was a renter’s market then and it’s not anymore. He thinks the
potential co-signer is a great idea. They have been working with the Rent Smart program as well that
educates tenants on how to be good tenants. Some landlords have been willing to consider an
applicant with a record who has completed the program while others haven’t.
Hutchison replied that whatever agency would be the co-signer should have Rent Smart as a part of
the program because a lot of these problems are tenant education based.
Rust stated that he looked up the Legal Tune Up program, which is put on by Legal Action and the
law school. They’re helping to remove evictions if they were dismissed and they’re older than two
years old, so it’s things that should have fallen off already anyway. The cases are being referred to the
CCAP Director’s attention so that they can be removed more expeditiously.
Hobbs asked Rust if it would be possible to completely remove background checks given the existence
of CCAP and essentially say it’s a form of housing discrimination.
Rust replied that he thinks there is a component to doing business with people that you should know
who you’re doing business with. He thinks there is a place for some type of background research on
tenants. CCAP does have a disclaimer for pending criminal cases.
Hobbs replied that if landlords refuse housing to people with felonies on their records, then there are
more felons on the streets which doesn’t help the them or the community. Landlords have property
insurance for covering risks. A lot of them will say they would give someone a second chance, but will
still choose someone without a record. They could incentivize landlords to rent to individuals who
have a record that looks a little different than they would hope.
Jevaltas replied that it’s also unfortunate that CCAP does not allow for mitigating circumstances
because not all cases of eviction are related to tenant education. Not everyone gets evicted because
they weren’t educated or there was criminal action. It could be an employment situation or similar life
event leading to non-payment.
Rust replied that having sat through hundreds of eviction trials, he has heard countless cases like
what Jevaltas described. Judges are extremely sympathetic, but the law is the law. The mitigating
circumstances are talked through, but they’re not included in CCAP.
Jevaltas replied that it’s unfortunate that landlords don’t ask what the circumstances of a previous
eviction were.
Rust replied that he thinks it’s possible in circumstances where there is excess housing stock, but when
there are twelve applications for every opening there might not be a need to ask the question.
Jevaltas replied that it’s almost like discrimination against the impoverished. It just keeps the poor,
poor.
Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 6
Ernst asked Rust why Winnebago County has a relatively low number of evictions currently
compared to other counties.
Rust replied that they have been trying to work on the evictions before they become evictions. They
have been mediating over Zoom during the pandemic.
Ernst asked Rust if there was anything RHAB could do to make his mission more successful.
Rust replied that getting the word out and sending people their way would be helpful and that they
would be happy to assist.
Ernst asked Rust how often they have meetings between landlords and tenants.
Rust replied that they are in the hallway during pre-trial proceedings to mediate between landlords
and tenants. Today there were four eviction trials and they mediated one. They’ll do anywhere from
one to eight in a typical week. It depends on how busy the court system is.
VII. Rental Inspections Update
Zarate stated that there were 11 complaint based inspections in the last two months with 77 of the
usual violations.
VIII. Social Media Update
Zarate stated that they posted the agenda for this meeting last week, information for a Rent Smart
class that was offered in October in November, and the landlord tenant guide as suggested at the last
meeting.
Ernst asked if they could add some holiday safety tips.
Zarate replied affirmatively.
IX. Winnebago County Eviction Data Update
Erickson shared eviction data through November.
X. Affordable Housing Study Update
Nieforth stated that they are finalizing comments from their steering committee. It’s in draft form and
will be presented to boards and commissions in early 2022 for comment. They will discuss the
recommendations and next steps at the February 9th meeting.
Jevaltas asked if they are looking at any home assistance programs with no interest down payments or
something similar.
Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 7
Nieforth replied affirmatively, adding that they are looking at multiple programs and have an existing
program for down payment assistance in the form of a forgivable loan. Eligibility depends on the
number of years they’ve owned the property as well as their income level. People are utilizing the
program and it is helping them achieve their housing goals.
XI. Public Information Campaign – Tenant and Landlord Rights
Ernst stated that they still need to add contact information to the brochure. The next step is to finalize
the brochure and poster for publication. He asked staff for an update on that.
Zarate replied that they would have no problem getting the contacts lined up once everything is ready.
Jevaltas stated that she would like to see a small logo on both the flyer and poster that incorporates the
tenant, landlord, and city all working together.
Nieforth clarified that they don’t have a graphic designer on staff, but there might be some resources
through Media Services to utilize. There might have funding available to hire a graphic designer.
Ernst stated that he will finalize some of the formatting and contacts and then it should be ready.
Hobbs stated that their spouse is a graphic designer for Lincoln Labs. He might be able to fit it in if it’s
through his business. That would be something to keep in mind if they’re struggling to find a designer.
XII. Other Business
Hobbs asked Nieforth if she could share the results of the housing study with the Redevelopment
Authority (RDA) prior to their January 19th meeting regarding the Day by Day Warming Shelter
acquisition.
Nieforth replied affirmatively, adding that city staff met after the RDA meeting and determined that
there are other ways to acquire the property without RDA’s approval. It will go before Plan
Commission on January 4th and then to Council on January 11th. They’re not going to purchase the
property until Day by Day has secured all of their funding, but they would like to get the approval
ahead of time so everything is ready. She can provide an update at the February meeting.
Jevaltas asked Zarate if there has been an uptick in complaints since RHAB started as a result of the
educational materials they’ve distributed at public events.
Zarate replied that it has been fairly constant for the last four to five years and there was not a
noticeable uptick.
No other items were identified for the February 9th meeting.
XIII. Adjournment
Rental Housing Advisory Board Minutes 8
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 5:05 PM. (Erickson/Hobbs)