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Plan Commission Minutes 1 September 21, 2021
PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
September 21, 2021
PRESENT: Mamadou Coulibaly, Margy Davey, Michael Ford, John Hinz, John Kiefer, Phil
Marshall, Justin Mitchell, Thomas Perry, Kathleen Propp, Meredith Scheuermann
EXCUSED: Derek Groth
STAFF: Mark Lyons, Planning Services Manager; Kelly Nieforth, Community Development
Director; Steven Ghode, Assistant Director of Public Works; Brian Slusarek, Planner;
Jeff Nau, Associate Planner
Chairperson Hinz called the meeting to order at 4:00 pm. Roll call was taken and a quorum
declared present.
I. PUBLIC HEARING: PROPOSED CREATION OF TAX INCREMENT FINANCING
DISTRICT NO. 41 SMITH SCHOOL REDEVELOPMENT DESIGNATION OF
BOUNDARIES AND APPROVAL OF PROJECT PLAN
Site Inspections Report: Mr. Hinz and Mr. Mitchell reported visiting the site.
Staff report accepted as part of the record.
Prior to taking action on proposed Tax Increment District (TID) No. 41 and the designation of
boundaries for said TID, the Plan Commission is to hold a public hearing and take comments
concerning proposed creation of TID No. 41. The public hearing is required as part of the formal
review process the City must follow in the creation of any tax incremental financing district or
amendment thereto.
Mr. Lyons presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area as well as the land use
and zoning classifications in this area. The applicant is proposing an adaptive reuse of the former
building to an affordable apartment building. Per the submitted narrative, 31 two and three
bedroom units are planned to be constructed within the building and 44 garage spaces along with
additional surface parking. Finding appropriate uses for buildings of this type can be challenging
as they outlive their original intended use.
Mr. Hinz opened up technical questions to staff.
Mr. Mitchell asked what is usually included in TIF packages and if the City ever adds a job
training element that the developer is not responsible for, but where funds could be used to train
unemployed or underemployed individuals in the construction trade. It looks like it’s a normal
part of TIF programming that they have specific sections with guidance on how to use it for job
training. He is wondering if the City does any of that.
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Plan Commission Minutes 2 September 21, 2021
Mr. Lyons replied that they have done job creation with TIFs, but he cannot recall a TIF with a job
training element.
Mr. Mitchell stated that they often fund the development itself and expect that single development
is going to improve the entire neighborhood, omitting all of the neighboring or adjoining
properties. It looks like the City can use financing to provide either below market rate loans and
even grants to neighboring properties if part of the provision of the project is to improve a
neighborhood. He asked if the City has looked at doing something like that because there are
many adjoining properties here that could maybe benefit.
Mr. Lyons replied that it depends on the nature of the TID and the financing available. They
included a lot of projects in the Oshkosh Avenue TID for stabilization of that neighborhood
because it was expected to generate enough increment to fund those improvements. In this case
they’ll need the full 27 years to pay off the obligations of the project, so there isn’t enough
increment to fund those improvements. They can only spend TID dollars for projects within a half
mile around the TID, so there are some parameters that go along with the ability to create
programs like that, but they have done it in the past.
Mr. Mitchell thanked Mr. Lyons for his explanation.
Mr. Hinz asked for any public comments and asked if the applicant wanted to make any
statements.
Ms. Monica Doehrmann, 1726 Minnesota Street, asked if her taxes would increase.
Mr. Lyons replied that they will not increase.
Mr. Tim Hess, 2645 Templeton Place, stated that he is one of the owners until this is completed and
he would be happy to answer any questions. A few questions were posed to him ahead of time
that he would like to address now.
Mr. Hess stated that one question was why they are now going to low income housing when
before they were talking about market rate. When they initially bought the building in December
2019, they were hoping to start by the spring of this year, but the pandemic substantially slowed
down the historic preservation review process. Last week they got the final approval from the
National Park Service for the plans that they have here. They are ready to roll, but the four
partners involved had kind of plotted out what they were looking to invest in the next couple
years and a different project came up that they were interested in doing. They realized that now
that they’ve worked through the process, they could come back and potentially do this as low
income. Why they’re doing it is really a question of timing. It doesn’t change much in terms of the
plan and it changes virtually nothing inside of the building.
Mr. Hess stated that this is going to be low income housing and they’re going to be using low
income housing tax credits through WEDA, which comes with a lot more accessibility
considerations. They added a publically accessible restroom and 50% of the units are visitable. If
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Plan Commission Minutes 3 September 21, 2021
they were doing new construction it would have to be 100%, but they appreciate it’s a historical
building and the Historical Society isn’t going to let them rip open the historic doors there. They
are also making sure that the bathrooms have the full radius turning for handicap accessibility.
They had to move the islands in the kitchen out a bit further for accessibility. In the grand scheme
of things, it’s the exact same project only WEDA is asking them to do more in terms of accessibility
and they’re happy to do that.
Ms. Propp asked what the units would potentially rent for.
Mr. Hess replied that the rent is going to be based off their income. As a 4% deal, they are allowed
to do income averaging. The maximum allowable for these projects is 60% of the community
median income. They are targeting for an average of somewhere between 50% and 60%, but they
anticipate maybe some at 40%. For someone at 40% of the median income, a one bedroom is $528, a
two bedroom is $636, and a three bedroom would be $739. It ensures that someone coming in with
maximum amount is spending 30% of their income on housing, so the actual limit could be a little
more. They would be paying utilities too, so they factor that out of the rent. For someone coming it
at 60% on the higher end, a one bedroom is $775, a two bedroom is $993, and a three bedroom is
$1,083.
Ms. Propp thanked Mr. Hess for his explanation, adding that those of them who have been
working with lower income folks know that $775 is still a massive rent.
Mr. Mitchell asked if they are doing the full building as qualified income units or if they are
segregating part of the building.
Mr. Hess replied that all 31 units are qualified income units.
Mr. Mitchell asked if there is a program they are partnering with to close the gap between the
income-based rent and market rate rent.
Mr. Hess replied that he isn’t the expert on that portion of this.
Mr. Mitchell asked if there are other programs they are partnering with as part of this
development.
Mr. Hess replied that right now everything is through WEDA. They’re providing the exceptional
financing. Normally with the bank its 80% loan to value and WEDA is providing 130% loan to
value. They are also looking at using federal Home Program dollars from the Department of
Administration. Additional programming on the back end side of the project is not his expertise
with this.
Mr. Mitchell asked if they would accept a housing choice voucher award from the Housing
Authority from an applicant.
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Plan Commission Minutes 4 September 21, 2021
Mr. Hess replied that his understanding is that they have to accept the voucher. They’re meeting
all the standards and checking that it’s up to standard, so he can’t fathom why they wouldn’t.
Mr. Mitchell replied that this is wonderful news. He is happy to see this because there is a major
gap in the community. As they’re aware, the a lot of projects don’t serve folks at an affordable rent
rate and sometimes there may be some opposition to the notion of affordable housing, but these
are folks often work service jobs and are an important part of the community who need an
affordable place to live. He commends them for this.
Ms. Davey stated that many of them in this group realize how important affordable housing is in
Oshkosh. She is thrilled that they are able to bring 31 affordable units between timing and
financing. She thinks it is fantastic and greatly needed.
Ms. Sue Volkman, 1752 Oregon Street, asked if they are planning to acquire property other than
the school building.
Mr. Lyons replied that no other acquisitions are anticipated as part of this project.
Ms. Volkman stated that not too long ago they had sidewalks put in there, which is also listed for
proposed project improvements. She asked if that was something that they’re still considering.
Mr. Lyons replied that he cannot recall anything for that in the project plan.
Ms. Nieforth replied that it would just be through the school and it would not be for private
owners outside of the district.
Ms. Volkman asked if there are grants or loans available to improve something around their
properties.
Mr. Lyons replied that it was discussed earlier, but there is no additional programming proposed.
Mr. Hinz closed public comments and asked if the applicant wanted to make any closing
statements.
There were no closing statements from the applicant.
Motion by Mitchell to approve the Project Plan and recommending the boundaries to the Council and
adopting the staff report as the findings.
Seconded by Ford.
Mr. Hinz asked if there was any discussion on the motion.
Mr. Hinz stated that he lives in this neighborhood and his family attended this school, so it is great
to see that it is going to be rehabilitated and remain in the neighborhood and do good things for
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Plan Commission Minutes 5 September 21, 2021
people. He knows he says this a lot, but it is great seeing local developers putting back into
Oshkosh, especially with historical buildings like this. He thanked the development team for their
work on this.
Motion carried 9-0.
II. PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR A PERSONAL
STORAGE FACILITY AT 1222 W SOUTH PARK AVENUE
Site Inspections Report: Ms. Davey, Mr. Hinz, Ms. Propp, and Mr. Perry reported visiting the site.
Staff report accepted as part of the record.
The applicant is requesting a Conditional Use Permit for a personal storage facility at 1222 W
South Park Avenue.
Mr. Slusarek presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area as well as the land
use and zoning classifications in this area. The applicant is proposing to construct three personal
storage facility buildings totaling 33,990 sq. ft. of building area for 110 storage units. Personal
storage facility land uses require a conditional use permit in the HI district.
The proposed plans were discussed at Plan Commission workshops on June 1, 2021 and July 20,
2021. Plan Commission was not supportive of the original plans at the 6/1/21 meeting as the plan
included storage buildings fronting W South Park Avenue. Plan Commission voiced support for
the revised plans discussed at the 7/20/21 meeting as the revised plans included a future
commercial development fronting W South Park Ave. with the storage facility located toward the
rear of the site. Staff is supportive of the proposed personal storage facility, provided the lot area
fronting W South Park Ave. is reserved for future commercial development to provide for
consistency with the South Park Corridor Land Use Plan. Staff recommends approval with the
findings and conditions as listed in the staff report.
Mr. Hinz opened up technical questions to staff.
Ms. Propp asked if the driveway from South Park will be on the same site as the current driveway.
Mr. Lyons replied that it includes a combined access for the existing buildings as well as the future
commercial development.
Ms. Propp asked if the trees to the left of the driveway will remain for now.
Mr. Lyons replied that they discussed leaving as much of the vegetation on the front side of the site
as possible while the parking lot and storage building improvements are made. They will have to
look at landscaping and what modifications are needed when a tenant is found for the site.
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Plan Commission Minutes 6 September 21, 2021
Ms. Propp asked if the fencing in the front yard on the east side would have to be reduced from six
feet to four feet to meet code.
Mr. Slusarek replied that the front setback area needs to be reduced to four feet and 50% visibility.
Once it meets setback, then it goes up to six feet and solid.
Mr. Coulibaly asked about the buildings on the left.
Mr. Lyons replied that the front building is only a single story structure, but he cannot recall about
the buildings to the rear of the site behind the homes.
Mr. Hinz asked if there was any signage along South Park Avenue to let people know about this.
Mr. Lyons replied that he doesn’t believe any signage was included in the submittal. Anything
proposed will need to be code compliant. For this district, they are looking at 100 square feet of
total sign area. For these districts the total allowed signage is based on the square footage of a lot,
so they would have to be code compliant as part of a conditional use permit. They cannot make
any modifications to allow signage.
Mr. Hinz asked for any public comments and asked if the applicant wanted to make any
statements.
Mr. Jesse Hall Keller, general contractor for the project, stated that as far as the building heights,
it’s probably a 12 to 14 foot tall structure. The current buildings are not very tall. They’re only
single story, but they’re manufacturing. For the landscaping upfront, it’s a struggle between
ripping it out and doing what’s on the plan or leaving what’s there and obstructing the site. He
will leave the direction up to them and do as they’d like. There was no signage planned in this
submittal.
There were no public comments on this item.
Mr. Hinz asked if the applicant wanted to make any closing statements.
Mr. Keller stated that they were advised that coverage for the buildings is 15% on all sides, but the
space between the doors and the open metal panel didn’t equal 15%. They thought it would be a
good compromise to put the ends of the building where there’s no doors and do 100% coverage to
try and offset the fact that they couldn’t get 15% because of the space being covered up in the
doors. There’s just not enough metal panel there, so they did 100% on the ends to try and meet the
requirements.
Motion by Propp to adopt the findings and recommendation as stated in the staff report.
Seconded by Coulibaly.
Mr. Hinz asked if there was any discussion on the motion.
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Plan Commission Minutes 7 September 21, 2021
Mr. Mitchell asked if future development would be feasible with the impervious surface or if they
would be exceeding the impervious surface requirements by adding another building.
Mr. Lyons replied that it is one of the elements they discussed to make sure there was sufficient
room. Their HI district has a maximum allowed impervious surface ratio of 70%, so they need to
make sure that 30% green space is preserved as future development comes forward.
Mr. Ford asked if the applicant will need to return if they want signage.
Mr. Lyons replied that as a conditional use permit, as long as the signage was code compliant, they
would not have to come back.
Mr. Hinz stated that this is one of the situations where the workshop really helped. It was
something that most of the members didn’t like and now they’ve found something that works for
most of them. It’s great to see this working because they’re trying to make things better for
developers and make it a little easier for them.
Motion carried 9-0.
III. SPECIFIC IMPLEMENTATION PLAN AMENDMENT FOR CANOPY ADDITIONS AT
3855 S WASHBURN STREET
Site Inspections Report: Mr. Hinz reported visiting the site.
Staff report accepted as part of the record.
The petitioner requests an amendment to the Specific Implementation Plan approval for canopy
additions at 3855 S Washburn St.
Mr. Slusarek presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area as well as the land
use and zoning classifications in this area. The subject parcel is zoned Suburban Mixed Use with a
Planned Development Overlay (SMU-PD). The parcel is approximately 32.46 acres (1,414,119 sq.
ft.) in area. Currently the parcel is a vacant lot and is located at the northwest corner of S.
Washburn Street and W. Ripple Road. Interstate 41 runs north-south just to the east of S.
Washburn Street and the subject site. The current Oshkosh city limit runs along the western edge
of the subject parcel. The surrounding area consists of mixed commercial, institutional, and
industrial uses. The 2040 Comprehensive Land Use Plan recommends Interstate Commercial use
for the subject area.
On May 11, 2021, the Common Council approved a General Development Plan (GDP) and Specific
Implementation Plan (SIP) for a commercial development (Camping World). The previously
approved GDP/SIP for the site was for a commercial development (Camping World). No changes
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Plan Commission Minutes 8 September 21, 2021
are being proposed to the approved use of the site. Staff recommends approval with the findings
and conditions as listed in the staff report.
Mr. Hinz opened up technical questions to staff.
There were no technical questions on this item.
Mr. Hinz asked for any public comments and asked if the applicant wanted to make any
statements.
Mr. Chris Walters, DBS Group, stated that they have been working with Camping World and the
City for the better part of a year on this project. The modifications to the SIP were motivated by
timing and finalizing their construction documents for this project. He appreciates their
consideration.
There were no public comments on this item.
Mr. Hinz closed public comments and asked if the applicant wanted to make any closing
statements.
There were no closing statements from the applicant.
Motion by Coulibaly to adopt the findings and recommendation as stated in the staff report.
Seconded by Propp.
Mr. Hinz asked if there was any discussion on the motion.
There was no discussion on the motion.
Motion carried 9-0.
Mr. Lyons stated that two months ago when they had to return to in-person meetings they needed
to move their October 19th meeting due to a room conflict. At that time they decided to move it to
October 20th. Now that they are back to virtual, he would like for them to decide if they would like
to return to their regular October 19th meeting. He asked them to raise their hands if they would
like to keep it on October 19th. All commissioners raised their hand.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at approximately 5:02 pm. (Propp/Kiefer)
Respectfully Submitted,
Mark Lyons
Planning Services Manager