HomeMy WebLinkAboutLandmarks Minutes 06-23-21CITY OF OSHKOSH LANDMARKS COMMISSION
Minutes
June 23rd, 2021
PRESENT: Shirley Brabender Mattox, Steve Cummings, Gerald Jacklin, Andrew Smith, Kristopher
Ulrich
EXCUSED: Nikki Stoll Olthoff
ABSENT: Elizabeth Hintz, Bill Miller
STAFF AND OTHERS: Steven Wiley
1. Call to Order
Ms. Brabender Mattox called the meeting to order at 3:03 p.m. and a quorum was declared present.
2. Approval of May 12th, 2021 Meeting Minutes
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked the Commission if there were any revisions for the May meeting minutes.
No commissioners had any revisions to the minutes so the Commission voted 5-0 to approve the
minutes as written (Cummings/Ulrich).
3. Chief Oshkosh Discussion – Continued Involvement – Discussion/Action
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley to address this item. Mr. Wiley explained that he was directed
to put this item on the June agenda. The question was whether Landmarks wanted to stay involved in
the Chief Oshkosh project. Mr. Wiley explained that the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI)
Committee had become involved and started working with Professor Pascale Manning from UW-
Oshkosh. Mr. Ulrich and Mr. Jacklin asked if a joint meeting between Landmarks and DEI would
make sense. Mr. Jacklin explained that the DEI committee had asked about holding a joint meeting
with the Landmarks Commission. He stated that David Grignon and another person from the
Menominee Nation were at the last DEI meeting.
Mr. Cummings recommended that the $5,000 he originally secured from Bill Heine for the project be
returned to the Heine family. He stated that the project was now politicized and not what the family
envisioned. He stated that the tone of the fifth plaque should be toned down and that the statue was an
Italian sculptor’s interpretation of Chief Oshkosh. Mr. Jacklin explained that the DEI committee now
wanted five plaques with an image of Chief Oshkosh at the center. Ms. Brabender Mattox noted that
Chief Oshkosh was a mediator and a communicator. She stated that the sturgeon, wild rice, and
forestry practices used by Native Americans 150 years ago continued in use now. She mentioned that
she had a contact with Rebecca Comfort who was a tribal person and a connection between the twelve
tribes and the historical society. Ms. Brabender Mattox believed that Ms. Comfort would be non-
confrontational. Mr. Cummings stated that the Landmarks Commission should stay involved.
Mr. Ulrich, Ms. Brabender Mattox, and Mr. Cummings all asked Mr. Wiley to send the Commission
wording from the plaque drafts. Mr. Ulrich wanted to understand the plaque wording better and
emphasized that he was supportive of history telling but not shaming people. Mr. Cummings stated
that the group originally involved in the Chief Oshkosh project had told the author that she needed to
simplify the plaque wording to an eighth grade level. He stated that the text was too wordy and it was
important for kids to understand the messages on the plaques.
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the project group should have asked Mr. Grignon and Chairman Cox
if they could tape the discussions where Mr. Grignon and Chairman Cox participated. Mr. Cummings
stated that he had donors lined up until they saw the text for the fifth plaque. The Commissioners
recapped the discussion and asked Mr. Wiley to summarize the discussion for a motion. Mr. Wiley
summarized that the Commission had discussion on the Chief Oshkosh project, the Commission
wanted to see the timeline/proposal DEI created, and that Mr. Cummings recommended returning the
original $5,000 of funding to the Heine family because the project no longer reflected Mr. Heine’s
vision. The Commission voted 5-0 to move forward according to the summary Mr. Wiley provided
(Ulrich/Cummings).
4. Recommendation to Council on Use of ARPA Funds - Action
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley for information on this item. Mr. Wiley explained that staff
was directed to place this item on the agendas for each board and commission to provide boards and
commissions the opportunity to provide input on the use of ARPA funding. Mr. Cummings asked
what ARPA stood for. Mr. Ulrich answered that it stood for American Rescue Plan Act. Ms. Brabender
Mattox suggested the creation of a fund for preservation projects. This could include façade programs
and loans and grants to maintain or preserve the housing stock. Ms. Brabender Mattox noted that most
of the Commission lived in older homes and if homes were maintained and preserved they did not lose
their values. Mr. Ulrich asked if historic homes needing lead pipe replacements be subsidized. Mr.
Cummings stated that many homes in Oshkosh were built before the Depression and World War II and
were not historic. He suggested a fund to maintain homes in their original conditions. Mr. Jacklin and
Mr. Cummings suggested that a program focus on the exterior of properties built pre-1940. Ms.
Brabender Mattox mentioned Menominee Drive where in her visit with Daina Penkiunas from the
Wisconsin Historical Society it was apparent that many of the homes were altered. Ms. Brabender
Mattox agreed that a potential program could focus on the pre-WWII homes.
Mr. Cummings asked if historic signage was another potential project. He suggested getting the
eligible portion of the Lakeshore site on the docket. Mr. Ulrich asked if the area eligible was the entire
Lakeshore site. Ms. Brabender Mattox answered that seven acres were eligible. The former municipal
golf course was 100 acres. Forty three shovel tests were completed, and the consultant came twice to
Landmarks meetings. Mr. Cummings suggested including a map in the next month’s Landmarks
packets showing the National Register-eligible portion of the Lakeshore site. Mr. Wiley noted that for
projects to qualify for ARPA funds they needed to tie back to COVID. Mr. Jacklin asked if a housing
preservation program could focus on low-moderate income people that owned old or historic homes
built before WWII. Ms. Brabender Mattox added that such a program should focus on preserving the
integrity of the homes. She did not support putting vinyl over old growth timber. Mr. Jacklin stated
that 1940 could be the cutoff year for eligible homes. Mr. Smith asked what type of work could qualify.
Commissioners agreed that porch, roof, windows, and siding could be eligible. Work would include
the repair, preservation, and maintenance of these items. Mr. Cummings noted that it was difficult to
find skilled painters who were few and far between. Mr. Jacklin suggested capping projects at $20,000-
$30,000. Mr. Smith asked where the funding was coming from. Mr. Ulrich answered that it was
federal money. He explained that a preservation program for older homes would support local and
sustainable labor. Mr. Cummings suggested taking out the low-moderate income verbiage. Mr. Ulrich
agreed. The Commission voted 5-0 to recommend that the City use some ARPA funds to create a
housing program focused on the preservation/restoration of older/historic homes built prior to 1940
(Cummings/Jacklin).
5. Building Permit Review
Mr. Cummings mentioned the property at 515 Franklin Street. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked about the
property at 1539 W Bent Avenue. Mr. Wiley stated that he was in touch with the owners and had
explained historic tax credit programs to them. The owners were not interested in tax credits and
wanted to do work to replace their porch. Mr. Wiley explained that the owners were planning to
replace the porch in its existing footprint and match the appearance except for replacing the parapet
with a metal railing. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the metal railing would be inappropriate. Ms.
Brabender Mattox asked if the property at 434/436 N Main Street was eligible for tax credits for the
roofing work. Mr. Wiley stated that the threshold for commercial state tax credits was $50,000. Ms.
Brabender Mattox stated that the owner might be able to come up with additional work to meet the
threshold. Mr. Cummings asked Mr. Wiley to find out the dollar threshold for commercial tax credits.
Mr. Ulrich asked if the work consisted solely of roofing or if there were other items included. Mr.
Wiley stated that he would confirm on the dollar threshold for commercial projects.
6. Acanthus Awards - Update
Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that she and Mr. Wiley were working on the Acanthus Award for the
Oshkosh | Winnebago County Housing Authority and Su van Howelingen for 2021 for the Waite Grass
Carpet Company reuse project. She explained that presentations at Council meetings now needed to
be recorded ahead of time. Mr. Wiley stated that once Ms. Brabender Mattox and he were able to
complete the presentation write-up and slides and record the presentation with Oshkosh Media staff
could place it on a Council agenda.
7. Historic Preservation Plan – Steven Wiley - Update
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley for an update on the historic preservation plan. Mr. Wiley
stated that he had provided a list of benefits of having an historic preservation plan to Anne Schaefer
who was going to create a case statement explaining the plan to potential donors and other interested
parties.
8. Historic Survey
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she had asked Mr. Wiley to include sections from the 2006 Historic
Survey in the Commissioner packets. She stated that the city had spent a large amount of money on
the survey and that there were properties deemed ineligible in the 1981 survey that were considered
potentially eligible for National Register listing by the 2006 survey. She stated that a section along
Hazel Street was a potential historic district. The Landmarks Commission had already completed the
Neo-Classical Historic District. Ms. Brabender Mattox suggested that the Commissioners look at
potentially eligible properties included in the survey as ones the Commission could work on
nominating.
9. Social Media – Discussion/Action
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley for an update on social media. Mr. Wiley stated that he had
done a post on the Facebook page for the Landmarks meeting and that he would do a post for the
upcoming plaque presentation for 1321 Porter Avenue scheduled for June 28th. Ms. Brabender Mattox
reminded Commissioners to send any suggestions for posts to Mr. Wiley. She stated that she had
much material on architect Henry Auler and that she had spent a significant amount of time recently
with Terry Laib inventorying Auler drawings.
10. Wisconsin Historical Society – Commissioner Training - Discussion
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that Chapter 4 of the Commissioner training was on the agenda for the
month. Chapter 4 focused on historic preservation commissions and considerations for starting a
commission. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that an important distinction was whether a commission
had binding or advisory authority. She stated also that the backgrounds of commissioners were also
important. The training chapter discussed new commissioner orientations. Ms. Brabender Mattox
stated that she would like to see a binder for new Landmarks commissioners that included the historic
preservation ordinance, a map of the historic districts, the commission bylaws, design standards, and
Secretary of the Interior’s standards. Mr. Wiley stated that he could work with other staff on preparing
binders for the Commissioners. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that history, art history, or architecture
were all recommended fields for students. She stated that she hoped the trainings helped the
Commissioners.
11. Commissioner Statements
a. Historic Plaque Criteria – Steven Wiley - Update
Mr. Wiley stated that he needed to work with IT to place the completed plaque application on the
Landmarks website. He stated that staff would likely adjust the pricing also because the price of
bronze went up. Therefore, the price of plaques would likely increase.
b. WAHPC Conference – April 23rd and 24th – Shirley Brabender Mattox
Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that for each session she came away with something. She stated
that one of the presenters did a tour of automotive related buildings in Marshfield. The 2022
WAHPC Conference was planned to occur in Marshfield. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that if a
presentation examined Oshkosh there were all sorts of automotive buildings just on North Main
including Gibson and the buildings were still there. She asked if Mr. Jacklin had any that jumped
out at him. He stated that the Marshfield presentation was his favorite but he liked all of them.
c. Historic Building Code Discussion – Steve Cummings
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Cummings if he had an update. Mr. Cummings stated that he did
not have any updates on this item. He stated that he had talked to Paul Porter at the Wisconsin
Historical Society who wanted to do a workshop on historic tax credits.
12. Agenda Items for Next Meeting (July 28th, 2021: 3 PM in City Hall Room 203)
Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the plaque presentation for 1321 Porter Avenue and asked what time
the presentation would occur. Mr. Wiley answered that the presentation would occur at 4:30 pm on
June 28th. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that she was a member of the National Association of
Preservation Commissions (NAPC) and members were people on preservation commissions nation-
wide. Often members would ask the NAPC group for input on different situations. Ms. Brabender
Mattox suggested a joint workshop between Landmarks and Sustainability. Mr. Ulrich agreed. Ms.
Brabender Mattox explained that the owner of 404 W New York Avenue was planning to come July 27th
and that he was still interested in landmarking his property. Currently only two buildings in Oshkosh
were landmarked. Ms. Brabender Mattox was planning to contact Mr. Greene. She explained that local
landmarking started with Landmarks, then went to the Plan Commission, and finally to the City
Council. Mr. Jacklin stated that the DEI committee was determined to move forward with the Chief
Oshkosh proposal. He suggested Landmarks and DEI meeting to discuss the project. Mr. Wiley stated
for future meetings that Landmarks could go back to the 2nd Wednesday and the normal meeting room
if the Commission wanted. He stated that Landmarks would go to July 14th if this was the case. A
number of commissioners stated they could not make the 14th so Ms. Brabender Mattox suggested
meeting on July 28th for the upcoming meeting. After this Landmarks could go back to the second
Wednesday.
13. Outstanding Issues
No one had any outstanding issues to discuss.
14. Adjournment
Mr. Cummings made a motion to adjourn and Mr. Jacklin seconded. Meeting adjourned at 5:22 pm (4-
0).
Recorded by:
Steven Wiley, AICP, Associate Planner