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HomeMy WebLinkAboutLandmarks Minutes 05-12-21CITY OF OSHKOSH LANDMARKS COMMISSION Minutes May 12th, 2021 PRESENT: Shirley Brabender Mattox, Steve Cummings, Gerald Jacklin, Kristopher Ulrich, Bill Miller (Meeting was held virtually via Webex and all attended via Webex) EXCUSED: Nikki Stoll Olthoff ABSENT: Elizabeth Hintz, Andrew Smith STAFF AND OTHERS: Steven Wiley, Audrey Spanbauer (Property Owner, 1523 N Main), Sue Tatum (Property Owner, 907 Washington Avenue) 1. Call to Order Ms. Brabender Mattox called the meeting to order at 3:04 p.m. and a quorum was declared present. Ms. Brabender Mattox welcomed Mr. Miller to the Commission and noted that he was recently elected to the City Council. She stated that Oshkosh was a Certified Local Government and Landmarks was a state-mandated commission. She stated that Landmarks oversaw locally landmarked properties but that its mission was also to preserve National and State Registered properties. 2. Approval of April 14th, 2021 Meeting Minutes Ms. Brabender Mattox asked the Commission if there were any revisions for the April meeting minutes. Mr. Wiley noted that there was a mistake in the agenda that went into the Commissioners’ packets. The agenda originally said approval of the February meeting minutes and should have said April meeting minutes. Staff corrected this error but after the packets went out. Mr. Miller stated that he did not receive the meeting agenda and was not sure which email address to which the meeting information was sent. Mr. Wiley stated that he would address this issue. Ms. Brabender Mattox noted where the minutes stated that she attended the school board meeting. She explained that she only attended the meeting virtually. She asked if this constituted attending the meeting. Mr. Wiley stated that virtual attendance counted especially with the large number of virtual meetings held recently. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that the school board meeting addressed Merrill School and its potential demolition. Mr. Ulrich asked if there was a procedure to address excessive absences and appoint new commissioners where possible. He also asked who the Vice Chair was. Mr. Wiley answered that the Mayor usually selected new commissioners and the Council had to approve them. He also stated that the Vice Chair was previously Mr. Arnold but Mr. Arnold stepped down. Mr. Ulrich suggested that Mr. Cummings would make a good Vice Chair. Mr. Wiley replied that he could put election of officers on a future agenda. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that some commissioners had not participated recently due to lacking the technology to do so virtually. She explained that there were certain procedures required when appointing and removing commissioners. No commissioners had any revisions to the minutes so the Commission voted 5-0 to approve the minutes as written (Cummings/Ulrich). 3. Meeting Format – Virtual or In-person - Action Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley to address this item. Mr. Wiley explained that he was directed to put this item on the May agenda. The Common Council had elected to go to in-person meetings and boards and commissions had the option of going in-person or continuing to stay virtual. There would be no hybrid option. Landmarks therefore needed to decide whether to stay with the virtual meeting format or go to in-person. Mr. Wiley was looking for direction from the commission on this. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked how many commissioners were comfortable going back to in-person meetings. Mr. Ulrich and Mr. Cummings stated that they were comfortable going back in-person. Mr. Cummings stated that it was time to get back to normal. Mr. Jacklin explained that he was more than comfortable to go back in-person but that the virtual format was a very nice alternative to not meeting at all. Ms. Brabender Mattox agreed and explained that the virtual format allowed Ms. Stoll Olthoff to participate leading up to and after having her baby. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked for a vote on the meeting format going forward. The Commission voted 5-0 to return to in-person meetings. 4. Building Permit Review This item was discussed after Outstanding Issues. Mr. Jacklin stated that hopefully there would not be another fence on Washington Avenue that came right up to the sidewalk for the 1231 Washington Avenue permit. Mr. Wiley stated that he had emailed the building permit review since staff was having issues with the permitting software prior to packets going out. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if there was anything in the building permit review worthy of discussion. She stated that a friend of hers that owned property on Algoma Boulevard called her and said that she had missed out on tax credits. Mr. Wiley stated that he had followed up with the property owner. 5. Acanthus Awards Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that May was Historic Preservation month and traditionally when the Landmarks Commission presented Acanthus Awards to a project or a person, the presentations usually occurred at the second Council meeting of the month. She stated that in several cases people who had received the awards had included mention of them in their obituaries. The awards were a great honor and the Commission had not done them in 2020. She stated that due to the limited time this year perhaps the Commission could do one award. Mr. Ulrich asked if Ms. Brabender Mattox was looking for nominations. Ms. Brabender Mattox replied affirmatively. Mr. Ulrich put forward the team behind the adaptive reuse of Smith School and explained that they were doing a fantastic job and were great to work with. He asked if they were appropriate to nominate. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the Smith School property was set to go through a hearing during the upcoming Friday at the Wisconsin Historical Society for its National Register nomination. Therefore the Smith School team would be perfect candidates for next year. Ms. Brabender Mattox proposed nominating the Waite Grass Carpet Company project. She explained that it was a property that covered two city blocks up by Nevada and Mt Vernon Streets. The Housing Authority had purchased the property around 15 years previously and it had sat until the right idea for reuse had come along. She explained that the Housing Authority had created affordable housing units in the building and that Mr. Wiley and she had toured the property after the work was completed. She asked Mr. Wiley to explain what was seen from an architectural standpoint. Mr. Wiley explained that the architect had followed the guidance provided by the Wisconsin Historical Society and the National Park Service. The work had to meet the Secretary of the Interior’s standards since historic tax credits were involved. The project was a fusion of old and new and there was a drastic change between its previous appearance in late 2017 with a portion of the roof collapsed and the completed work. The heavy timber structure previously exposed to the sky was integrated into livable apartment units. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that thousands of panes of window glass were restored. The project team was able to save money by having craftsmen come on-site to restore the windows. She stated that in some areas there were two stories of light and each apartment was different. She stated that the project team had to follow SHPO standards exactly. The timber beams for example were not painted at the top because the tops of the beams were never painted historically. Nails were left in some of the columns and beams because they were historically there. The project team had to follow the historic standards in order to receive the historic tax credits. Mr. Wiley showed several of the images he took when he toured the property. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that some units had concrete floors and some had wood depending on what was historic to the portion of the building. Mr. Wiley showed an image of the exterior where large industrial doors were maintained but the interior wall treatments were appropriate to the apartment units. Mr. Wiley explained that in some cases baseboards were not used on the interiors of the units because historically they did not exist on the original portions of the building. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained some of the history of the building. She stated that if the Commission approved the Waite Grass Carpet Company project for an award she would write the nomination. Mr. Wiley had the photographs from the site tour so Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she would work with Mr. Wiley on preparing a nomination. Mr. Cummings stated that the project was worthy of nomination and would provide a chance to discuss historic tax credits. He suggested finding out the official historical name of the property. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the current name of the complex was the Waite Rug Place. Mr. Wiley pulled up the nomination which listed “Waite Grass Carpet Company” as the historic name. Mr. Jacklin explained that at the most recent conference with staff from the Wisconsin Historical Society the Waite project was mentioned as a successful tax credit project. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that she had nominated the project for a WAHPC award. She asked the Commission for a motion to approve moving forward with an Acanthus Award for the Waite Grass Carpet Company project. The Commission voted 5-0 to move forward (Miller/Ulrich). 6. Historic Preservation Plan – Steven Wiley - Update Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley for an update on the preservation plan. Mr. Wiley stated that he needed to work with Anne Schaefer who was the City’s Marketing and Fund Development Coordinator. He stated that the next step was for him to work with Ms. Schaefer on the case statement. The case statement was a document that would help sell the plan to potential donors and include the benefits of an historic preservation plan, etc. 7. 907 Washington Avenue Plaque Application - Action Mr. Wiley explained that Sue Tatum was one of the owners of the property and Ms. Tatum had submitted an application to the historic plaque program for consideration. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Ms. Tatum what inspired her to purchase and restore the home. Ms. Tatum stated that she was originally from Oshkosh and that she and her husband were ready to move back from Florida after retiring. She stated that the house was on the market and she wanted a nice place to live in her hometown. Ms. Brabender Mattox complemented her choice of home and going with Terry Laib for the restoration. Ms. Tatum stated that she was intrigued by the Victorian Italianate style of the home and that it was a William Waters home. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that Oshkosh did not have many Italianate homes from the home’s period. She asked if Ms. Tatum had original photographs of the home. Ms. Tatum replied that she had done a lot of research and had architectural drawings but not photographs. She stated that the original owner, RJ Weisbrod, was the Chief of Police so was surprised that there were no photographs. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if there were additional questions for Ms. Tatum. Mr. Cummings stated that Ms. Tatum was a good friend of his sister’s and he was familiar with the work done and was able to go through the house. He suggested that the Commission determine a date with Ms. Tatum to go through the house and see the work that was done. Mr. Cummings complemented the work done by the owners on restoring the house. Mr. Ulrich complemented the historic plaque application Ms. Tatum submitted and the materials she included. He stated that this would fall under the plaque categories of important architectural style and important Oshkosh figure (RJ Weisbrod). Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that for the National Register there were five categories to determine significance. She suggested for the historic plaque considering the property as an outstanding architectural example and its association with RJ Weisbrod as the Oshkosh Chief of Police for whom it was built. She asked Ms. Tatum what the most exciting element of the restoration was. Ms. Tatum answered that the restoration of the front porch was the most exciting element of the work. She stated that they removed the newer porch, restored the original roof line, and found original elements such as the transom and trim. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Mr. Laib had the original drawings for this house. Ms. Tatum replied that he did not but that he had massive files to go through. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley to read the plaque criteria. Mr. Wiley read the five criteria under which properties could qualify. Mr. Wiley observed that the property could qualify under three of the five categories. Ms. Brabender Mattox listed the three categories through which the property could qualify: architectural style (Italianate), work of a prominent architect (William Waters), and association with a significant person (RJ Weisbrod-original owner). She then asked for a motion and a second. Mr. Jacklin suggested incorporating a reference to the original owner as Police Chief. The Commission voted 5-0 to approve the historic plaque (Miller/Ulrich). Ms. Brabender Mattox asked what days worked for Ms. Tatum for a tour. Ms. Tatum stated that she and her husband were retired so they were flexible. Mr. Wiley explained the plaque process and that he would work with Ms. Tatum on the plaque. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that generally Landmarks would do a presentation of the plaque to the owners and then tour the home. Therefore, it would be possible to coordinate the plaque presentation and the tour together. Mr. Cummings stated that it was up to the owners to determine what name went on the plaques. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that in many cases the owners incorporated the original owner’s name into their plaques. She stated that Ms. Tatum could work with Mr. Wiley on the plaque. Ms. Tatum thanked the Commission and left the meeting at 4:02 pm. 8. 1523 N Main Street Plaque Application - Action Ms. Brabender Mattox noted that the property owner, Audrey Spanbauer, was in attendance. She asked Ms. Spanbauer what motivated her to apply for a plaque. She stated that there were several reasons including her increasing love for historic preservation which started with the demolition of her grandparents’ home on Algoma to make room for UW-Oshkosh expansion. She mentioned after buying the home in 1998 changes occurred in the neighborhood and for a while she was looking at selling her home. She wanted to make sure her home stayed relevant and cared for. She stated that she had done new landscaping, kept the cedar shake siding, and added some color to the house. Mr. Wiley showed a current image of the home. Ms. Spanbauer stated that she was the third owner of the home. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Ms. Spanbauer had historic photographs of her home. Ms. Spanbauer stated that she had searched and contacted the Oshkosh Public Library who had not gotten back to her yet. She stated that she had not found anything yet. Ms. Spanbauer stated that the historic name of the house was the Jack and Jennie Riegel house. She stated that she could not find out much about the house. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that Jennifer Lehrke did the research for the nomination paperwork for the Bungalow district. Mr. Wiley pulled up the nomination papers. Mr. Wiley did not see anything in the nomination. Ms. Spanbauer stated that Mr. Riegel might have been a carpenter. Mr. Wiley stated that the old census information was another potential source of information. Ms. Brabender Mattox noted that the house had its original cedar siding, which could last a long time. Some questions would relate to changes made to the house over time. The dormer on the side appeared to be added. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the tall pitched roof was indicative of Tudor bungalows from the 1920s. She asked what beyond the cedar siding was original. Ms. Spanbauer noted the front door which was restored to the original look. Mr. Miller stated that he needed to sign off due to a conflict and he left at 4:14 pm. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if the windows were replacements. Ms. Spanbauer stated that the windows would not stay in the ledges and were shifting down due to water damage. She stated that they had to replace the windows due to this. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that with the Waite Carpet Company thousands of panes were restored. The same occurred with the 907 Washington property. She stated that old growth timber should last hundreds of years. Homes built currently could be expected to last 60-70 years. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that a lot of people in Oshkosh were not aware of options available to homeowners to restore original windows. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the commission redid its plaque criteria recently. Mr. Ulrich asked if the home was really a Tudor Revival because he usually thought of brick buildings when he thought of Tudor Revival buildings. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she used to live in England and that the most iconic part of Tudor Revival architecture was the steep pitched gables. Mr. Wiley stated that there were more modest examples of Tudor Revival. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the bungalow district was an example of modest architecture. She explained that she had worked on creating the district. Once the district was established the City had to follow federal laws protecting its integrity. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Ms. Spanbauer attended the public hearings for the district’s creation. Ms. Spanbauer stated that she was not able to attend those at the time. Mr. Cummings emphasized the word “modest” and explained that not all examples were large grand homes. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that there were a series of characteristics that made an example Tudor Revival. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked which criteria the commission would use to qualify the property for a plaque. Mr. Jacklin suggested architectural styles. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the property was a contributing structure within the district which was a plus. Mr. Ulrich asked if the Commission could qualify the property based on it having the largest Burr Oak in Winnebago County. He stated that it was a stretch to him to consider the property a Tudor Revival and the window replacements sat uncomfortably with him. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that many of the oak trees in the area were well over 200 years old. She stated that she did not think though that the Commission could award the plaque for the tree. She asked for a motion or discussion. Mr. Ulrich made a motion to approve based on the architectural style and Mr. Cummings seconded. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Ms. Spanbauer thought about what she wanted to put on her plaque. Ms. Spanbauer stated that she was going to honor the original owners. Ms. Spanbauer thanked the Commission. The commission voted 4-0 to approve the plaque for 1523 N Main Street. The Commission thanked Ms. Spanbauer. Mr. Wiley stated that he would be in touch with Ms. Spanbauer. Ms. Spanbauer left at 4:32 pm. 9. Wisconsin Historical Society – Commissioner Training Chapter 3 – Discussion Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the chapter focused on the economics of preservation. She explained that the chapter explained how a well-preserved home could increase the values of the properties around it. She stated that heritage tourism was mentioned on page 2 and that at an upcoming fall State Historical Society conference there would be a presentation on heritage tourism. People that traveled for heritage tourism tended to stay much longer when visiting a community. Jobs were also very important. Local craftsmen were often paid through preservation projects as opposed to new construction, which tended to fund more jobs outside the community. Labor was a significant portion of the cost of restoration/preservation projects. Mr. Cummings stated that historic tax credits were part of the discussion. He had been in touch with Paul Porter at SHPO. He explained that the $10,000 threshold required for the homeowner tax credit program was a low hurdle. He said that it was not difficult to apply for the credits. It was important to find people that knew how to do the work. He stated that for part of the 907 Washington Avenue project, someone had to come out of retirement to do some of the work. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Commissioners were finding the trainings of value. Mr. Jacklin replied affirmatively. He emphasized the sustainability aspect of preservation especially with the high costs of new building materials. Mr. Cummings stated that there were a lot of modest homes that were significant and often overlooked. Ms. Brabender Mattox emphasized the value of older materials which were meant to last. 10. Historic Building Code Discussion – Steve Cummings Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Cummings if he could work with Paul Porter to see if they could get some type of meeting in Oshkosh perhaps sponsored by the Winnebago County Historical Society and Oshkosh Landmarks Commission and maybe in a larger venue. 11. Social Media – Discussion/Action Ms. Brabender Mattox noted that Mr. Wiley had been posting some material on Facebook. Mr. Wiley stated that he would like to post something for historic preservation month so if anyone had ideas he was open to them. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she was planning to do the Acanthus Awards and that in previous years the Commission had done other events such as a tour of historic churches, identification of historic elements, etc. The Commission could consider more for next year. Mr. Jacklin suggested perhaps posting on a few points from Chapter 3 of the training. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that each one of the points could be a post. She stated that she could help Mr. Wiley with this. She explained that people could relate to Chapter 3. She noted that Facebook was current versus the website which was static. 12. Commissioner Statements a. Historic Preservation Month – Shirley Brabender Mattox Ms. Brabender Mattox noted that the Commission had already talked about this. b. WAHPC Conference – April 23rd and 24th – Shirley Brabender Mattox Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that Mr. Wiley was in attendance for the first day of the conference. She asked if he had any comments. He stated that he thought it was all really good material. Mr. Jacklin stated that he watched and liked every presentation. He said that this was an educational process because he was fairly new. He stated that during his time living in Madison he enjoyed visiting the Historical Society. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she set up the speakers of the program and that it was a powerful group of speakers with a broad spectrum of topics. She explained that she was aware of all the registrations. The attendees were from a wide area and it was the largest group yet for attendance. c. Smith School SHPO Review Board Hearing May 14th – Shirley Brabender Mattox Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that in the Commissioners’ packets, there was a page with log-in information in case anyone wanted to view the hearing. She had written a letter of support to SHPO and contacted the 3 legislators for their support. She stated that Daina Penkiunas acknowledged that she had received the letter of support. 13. Agenda Items for Next Meeting (June 9th, 2021: 3 PM in City Hall Room 203) Ongoing items such as the Building Permit review, Acanthus Awards, preservation plan, Commissioner Training, and social media would remain on the agenda. 14. Outstanding Issues Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the owner of 404 W New York Avenue was interested in preserving and land marking his property. When he returned to Oshkosh this project would resume. For the Lakeshore Historic Site the location was eligible for the National Register. Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned that for 907 Washington the Commission could tour the home when the owner’s plaque came in. She explained that the owner might have some influence in the neighborhood to encourage other owners to preserve their properties. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley if he had an update for the Grand Opera House signage. Mr. Wiley explained that the final inspections except for those of the interior wall surfaces had occurred. The Grand’s signage team was going to patch and repair the interior walls and complete final inspections. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked for an update on the Chief Oshkosh signage. Mr. Wiley stated that the department heads involved had a meeting with the City Manager the previous day regarding the project. The Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) Committee wanted to be involved and a memo was drafted for Council. Council would then provide direction to staff. Multiple boards would be involved including DEI, Landmarks, Advisory Parks, Museum, and Library boards. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that Landmarks was already involved and had asked the tribal nation to work with them. Mr. Cummings stated that he had been at the project since 2015 with his original (now deceased) donor. He stated that the draft needed to be more accessible and easier to understand especially for children. He mentioned the fifth plaque and that donors would likely not support it. He stated that the message could be delivered in a less confrontational manner. He stated that he had donors turn the project down. Mr. Cummings stated that the goal was to honor Chief Oshkosh, not rewrite history. In many cases sculptures and paintings did not show the person as he or she was. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the Wisconsin Historical Society was celebrating its 175th anniversary. She asked Mr. Wiley if he had any other comments. He stated that he was not aware of any. Mr. Jacklin asked if the Commission did the building permit review. The Commission proceeded to briefly discuss the building permit review (see item above). 14. Adjournment Mr. Cummings made a motion to adjourn and Mr. Jacklin seconded. Meeting adjourned at 5:22 pm (4- 0). Recorded by: Steven Wiley, AICP, Associate Planner