HomeMy WebLinkAboutLandmarks Minutes 12-09-20 CITY OF OSHKOSH LANDMARKS COMMISSION
Minutes
December 91h,2020
PRESENT: Shirley Brabender Mattox, Steve Cummings, Nikki Stoll Olthoff, Deb Allison Aasby,
Gerald Jacklin, (Meeting was held virtually via Webex and all attended via Webex)
EXCUSED: Paul Arnold
ABSENT: Elizabeth Hintz, Kristopher Ulrich, Andrew Smith
STAFF AND OTHERS: Steven Wiley
1. Call to Order
Ms. Brabender Mattox called the meeting to order at 3:01 p.m. and a quorum was declared present.
2. Approval of November 11th,2020 Meeting Minutes
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked the Commission if there were any revisions for the November meeting
minutes. No commissioners had any revisions to the minutes so the Commission voted 4-0 to approve
the minutes as written (Stoll Olthoff/Jacklin).
3. Historic Plaque Criteria—Discussion/Action
Mr.Wiley explained that he had taken the Commission input provided at the November 11th
Landmarks meeting and revised the historic plaque application that Mr. Ulrich drafted. The revised
draft was included in the December 9th Commission packets.
Ms. Allison-Aasby joined the meeting at 3:07 pm. Ms.Brabender Mattox asked for comments on the
revised historic plaque application. Ms. Stoll Olthoff saw that the Commission's input from the
November 11ffi meeting was incorporated and the requested additions were made to the draft
application. She asked Mr.Wiley if he had a chance to make the document a fillable pdf. Mr. Wiley
answered that he had not yet. Ms. Brabender Mattox referred to the use of the word "images" in a few
sections of the application. She asked Mr. Wiley if"images" submitted would usually consist of
photographs. Mr. Wiley answered that if applicants had the ability to create drawings or access to
drawings they could submit these with their applications. However, in most cases submitted images
would consist of photographs. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley if the application currently had
any space to add additional information if an applicant ran out of space in the main body of the
application. Mr. Wiley stated that the application did not currently have additional space but that he
could add more space.
Mr. Cummings asked if the Commission wanted to add a note on the application regarding the cost of
the plaques and that applicants were responsible for the costs of the plaques. Mr. Wiley stated that the
application included a note on the front page. Ms. Brabender Mattox recommended also listing such a
note in the certification. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that the Commission could choose "images" or
"photos" for word choice to maintain consistency throughout the application. Ms. Brabender Mattox
asked if the Commission had a preference on wording. Ms. Stoll Olthoff replied affirmatively and
suggested using "images/photos" for each instance where the application currently mentioned
"images" or "photos." Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if there was anything in the application about the
wording of the historic plaques. Mr.Jacklin and Ms. Brabender Mattox agreed that somewhere the
application should include information on the wording of the plaques. Mr. Cummings stated that in a
past example the owner of Oblios had the choice of multiple wordings based on ownership of the
property. The wording was up to the owner based on what he or she wanted. Ms. Brabender Mattox
asked Ms. Stoll Olthoff for her opinion on whether the application should include information on
plaque language. Ms. Stoll Olthoff asked if the Landmarks webpage currently included images of
example plaques for applicants to visualize the plaques. Mr. Wiley went to the website and showed it
to the Commission. He answered that the page for the Historic Plaque Program included images of
past plaques. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if the application would include an image of a sample
plaque and if the application could use the information regarding historic plaques currently included
on the Landmarks webpage. She suggested that Mr.Wiley could include such information on the last
page of the application where white space existed. Ms. Stoll Olthoff asked if potential applicants
would not be reading the information on the Landmarks webpage already. Ms. Brabender Mattox
responded that some older applicants may not have familiarity with the webpage or how to access the
page. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that the Commission could add the information included on the
webpage to the last page of the application as suggested.
Mr.Jacklin suggested including an opening statement on the application explaining what the plaque
was. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the plaques identified historic structures. Mr. Jacklin replied
that staff and the Commission could do some wordsmithing of Ms. Brabender Mattox's statement and
include it as an explanation for applicants. Ms. Brabender Mattox suggested that Mr. Wiley include a
one sentence explanation stating that the historic plaques identified historic structures.
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr.Wiley to include the information on historic plaques currently
included on the Landmarks webpage at the end of the application as previously discussed. She
requested that Mr. Wiley include at the beginning of the application a sentence explaining that the
plaques designated historic structures. She noted that Mr. Wiley had included the Oshkosh Public
Museum as a resource. She asked Mr.Wiley if he had enough input from the Commission to make
updates to the application. Mr. Wiley replied affirmatively. The Commission voted 5-0 to approve the
historic plaque application with the requested modifications (Stoll Olthoff/Cummings).
4. Building Permit Review
Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the roofing permit issued for 1129 Algoma Boulevard and explained
that she had contacted the owner to see if the work proceeded. The owner had informed Ms.
Brabender Mattox that the roofing work was completed in November. Ms. Brabender Mattox had
brought up with the owner the question of whether the neighborhood could bring up the significance
of historic preservation and historic tax credit programs at neighborhood meetings and in mailings.
Ms. Brabender Mattox informed the Commission on how the owner of 1129 Algoma and she initially
commiserated over the owner missing out on around $5,000 worth of historic tax credits but then the
owner mentioned that she had other work in mind that she wanted to complete. Ms. Brabender Mattox
and the owner had discussed how future siding, etc. could qualify for historic tax credits and that the
owner could apply for tax credits before undertaking this work in the next few years. Ms. Brabender
Mattox emphasized that in maintaining historic integrity everyone benefitted. Ms. Brabender Mattox
explained to the Commission that she hoped the neighborhood association would include the
information on historic tax credits in neighborhood mailings, etc.
Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the property at 537 N Main Street and that Eric Hoopman owned the
property. She mentioned to Mr. Wiley that she presumed the property would be eligible for historic
tax credits. Mr. Wiley explained that for work on income generating properties such as this to have
eligibility for the state program the work had to amount to at least$50,000. Ms. Brabender Mattox
stated that if the owner was to undertake the work listed on the building permit review and future
work the costs could add up and meet the$50,000 threshold. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if there were
any addition comments on the building permit review. She thanked Mr. Wiley for continuing to
include the list of building permits in the Commission packets and mentioned that in her conversations
with State Historic Preservation Office staff, SHPO staff were supportive of the historic building permit
reviews Landmarks conducted each month.
5. Historic Preservation Plan—Steven Wiley-Update
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr.Wiley for an update on the historic preservation plan. Mr. Wiley
stated that he was in the process of applying for a CLG Subgrant through the State Historic
Preservation Office. Mr. Wiley had continued work on the updated CLG Subgrant application and had
sent the completed draft application to Jason Tish at SHPO for Mr. Tish's input prior to the final
submission. The updated CLG Subgrant requirements stipulated that grant applicants obtain and
submit at least two consultant cost estimates with itemized cost breakdowns by project subcategory.
So far one of the three consultants Mr. Wiley had contacted submitted a cost estimate meeting the
application criteria. He therefore had reached out recently to the other two consultants and asked them
if they could provide itemized cost breakdowns. Both consultants had replied and indicated that they
could accommodate the request. Mr. Wiley explained that the number of CLG Subgrant applicants
could vary and that Oshkosh could receive the entire requested amount,half of the amount, or a small
portion of the amount initially requested. Mr. Wiley stated that therefore, it was important for the
Commission to keep in mind potential alternative options to supplement or substitute for the grant
funding. He suggested that if Ms. Brabender Mattox, Mr. Cummings, or any other Commissioners
knew of potential funding sources or donors, to keep them in mind. Mr. Wiley informed the
Commission that based on his conversations with other City staff, many potential donors were focused
on basic needs at the current time due to the pandemic situation. Ms. Brabender Mattox replied that
she understood what Mr. Wiley had said regarding the potential need for alternative funding sources
beyond the CLG grant. Mr.Wiley noted that if Ms. Brabender Mattox was still able to help write a
cover letter for the CLG Subgrant application this could benefit the application. He stated that he had
taken efforts to seek input from Mr. Tish and obtain the additional itemized cost estimates from
consultants due to the holidays coming up and the grant application due date approaching prior to the
January Landmarks meeting.
6. Social Media—Discussion/Action
Ms.Brabender Mattox stated that Landmarks had the Landmarks website and the Landmarks Facebook
page as the means of reaching people on preservation-related topics. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr.
Wiley if he had information on the number of Landmarks website visits. Mr. Wiley stated that he had
the website information and opened it to share with the Commission. The number of page views was
down from October (201 versus 248) and the number of unique page views was down (163 versus 178)
but the average time spent on the page was up. Ms. Brabender Mattox emphasized the importance of
the Facebook page and the need for ongoing, continuous activity on the page. Mr. Wiley explained that
he was making efforts to share material from other entities and when possible would post pertinent
material on the page. For December 711,he had put a short post regarding Pearl Harbor out there and he
had also posted the December 911, Landmarks meeting agenda and information on the page. Ms. Stoll
Olthoff stated that if other entities could also share the Oshkosh Landmarks material it would help the
Landmarks page. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Mr. Wiley could share the updated historic plaque
criteria and information on the Facebook page. Mr.Wiley stated that he could share the updated plaque
information once he revised the application. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the issue for her was
getting images and text together and getting them to Mr. Wiley for including as a post on the page. Mr.
Wiley stated that if things came up and he saw them he would post them or share them. Ms. Brabender
Mattox asked what action Mr.Wiley was looking for with the Social Media item. Mr.Wiley clarified that
he was not looking for any action but included "Action" in the item so that the Commission would have
the ability to take action on any social media items that came up. He explained that staff placed social
media as an action item in the event that staff or anyone on the Commission wanted to propose material
for posting on the Facebook page. If anyone was wondering whether something was acceptable to post
he or she could refer that material to the Commission for action on whether to support posting the
material.
7. Commissioner Statements
a. WI Historical Society Local History and Historic Preservation Conference—October 21-23 (Virtual for
2020)—Shirley Brabender Mattox, Steve Cummings, Gerald Jacklin, Nikki Stoll Olthoff, and Steven
Wiley
Ms. Allison-Aasby left the meeting at 4:01 pm. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked for comments. Mr.
Cummings explained that 2020 was his first time attending the conference and he really enjoyed it. He
learned a lot from the speakers whose sessions he had time to listen to. He wished there was a bit more
time to ask questions. He stated that some of the presenters did not seem the best prepared and were
"winging it"but overall he believed the conference was time well spent.
Ms. Brabender Mattox was fascinated with the program on the Native Americans. She stated that for
the spring WAHPC conference she was looking to continue that and have two sessions at least. She
stated that this was inspiring her to still look at eligibility for the portion of the former Lakeshore
Municipal Golf Course previously deemed eligible for the National Register. She stated that her regret
was that she did not take advantage of the option to go back and view the sessions that she missed.
Mr.Wiley stated that he did not get to all of the sessions but he did go back to as many as possible. Ms.
Stoll Olthoff asked if the links to the sessions were no longer available. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated
that the links were available through December 1st. Mr.Jacklin stated that he was impressed by the
breadth of the subject matter. He noted the material concerning historic buildings but also the Native
Americans and the fact that Wisconsin had the most burial sites of any state. He also noted the session
on logging. He was impressed with many of the side subjects.
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Cummings what sessions impressed him the most. Mr. Cummings
answered that the session on wild rice stood out. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the Oshkosh area
had one of the largest locations for wild rice. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley what sessions he
found the most interesting. Mr. Wiley answered that the sessions on mothballing historic buildings
and museum curation policies stood out to him. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the architects who
presented during the mothballing session spent hours over a period of weeks working out how to
make the presentation work with the technology. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that the session was
applicable to Oshkosh because Oshkosh had many buildings that were empty and it was important to
save them until someone came along with the right idea to effectively reuse them.
b. St. Mary's National Register Nomination—Steven Wiley
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr.Wiley to tell the Commission about the St. Mary's nomination. Mr.
Wiley stated that the nomination was sent through to the state and that he had not heard anything back
on it. Since the project was receiving federal funds (through Community Development Block Grant
dollars) it would require a Section 106 review. Mr. Wiley had worked on the environmental review for
the project. Ms. Brabender Mattox noted that the project would come back to Landmarks. Mr. Wiley
affirmed this and stated that he was working with City Grants Coordinator Darlene Brandt who was in
charge of administering the CDBG program for the city. Mr. Wiley stated that he would let the
Commission know when the city would initiate the Section 106 process once he received more direction
from Ms. Brandt.
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr.Wiley to explain why the project required a Section 106 review. Mr.
Wiley answered that the review was required because the project involved federal dollars and the
National Historic Preservation Act of 1966 mandated the reviews for projects receiving federal dollars
or undertaken by a federal agency and involving properties that were eligible for or listed on the
National Register. Mr. Wiley stated that he did not think that the proposed work would have an
adverse impact on the Washington Avenue Historic District (which was very close to the subject
property)but the subject property was nominated for the Registers. He stated that he would be
surprised if it was not listed. He stated that the project was an adaptive reuse of an existing building
and that the applicants would have to meet the Secretary of the Interior's standards if they applied for
historic tax credits. He stated that he would think at the very least the property would be deemed
eligible for the Registers and likely listed. With federal funds being involved the City would have to go
through the 106 process. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she did not know that the federal as far as
the federal tax credits was the federal involvement. Mr. Wiley stated that the CDBG funds also
consisted of federal dollars.
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated to the other Commissioners that a Section 106 was a way for Landmarks
to respond to a project. Project examples included a bridge coming down (such as the Main Street
railway bridge being removed). She explained that in that scenario an attorney came from Minneapolis
and the Commission provided input, requesting that the railroad save whatever possible. Other
projects included cell towers. She explained that the Commission relied on staff to keep them informed
on projects coming up for review.
c. 2020 Annual Report-Steven Wiley
Ms. Brabender Mattox noted that it was already the end of the year. Mr. Wiley explained that he
wanted to have the annual report draft ready for review at the January meeting, and that after the
January meeting he could submit the annual report to SHPO. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley
to let he know if he needed help. She stated that the annual report was a major project but also one that
enforced the Commission's credibility with the state. She stated that she believed Mr.Wiley sent the
state the monthly Landmarks minutes. Mr. Wiley affirmed that staff did so. Ms. Brabender Mattox
stated that the annual reports helped when Oshkosh was applying for grants through the state. The
annual reports kept Oshkosh on the state's radar and had ramifications.
10. Agenda Items for Next Meeting(January 13th,2021: 3 PM in City Hall Room 203)
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr.Wiley if there were any future items the Commission should consider.
He answered that the annual report, the preservation plan (application would be submitted prior to the
next meeting), and social media would stay on the agenda. He would work on the annual report draft
and revising the plaque criteria. He stated that he would also remove the Grand Opera House signage
from the outstanding items list and place it back on the agenda for an update. The St. Mary's
nomination and Section 106 could also come through soon for a comment from Landmarks. Mr.
Behnke's 1321 Porter Avenue plaque would also come back when appropriate.
11. Outstanding Issues
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if anyone had any other outstanding issues. Mr. Cummings stated that he
had a couple items. He informed the Commission that a person who had been very supportive of
many things that the Commission wanted to do such as the historic signage along the river, the
proposed signage for the Chief Oshkosh monument(Bill Heine)had passed away a couple of weeks
prior to the meeting. He stated that the Commission had talked previously about a house on
Washington Avenue that Laib Restoration was redoing. He stated that the owners were good friends
of his sister's and they would be more than willing to have the Landmarks Commission go through the
house. He stated that they had maintained what was original and salvaged and repurposed many
other things. The third thing was that he had received an email from Joe Ferlo recently regarding the
signage project the Commission had worked on with Mr. Ferlo. The state had approved the designs
and Mr. Ferlo was planning to make the announcement soon. Since the City gave the Grand a 10 year
lease the Grand was able to secure donor funding from Festival Foods for all of the signage. Mr. Ferlo
had informed Mr. Cummings that he was not sure when installation would begin but it would begin
sometime in 2021. Mr. Cummings had talked to Mr. Wiley about a tour of the home on Washington
Avenue. The home would be the owners' permanent residence. Mr. Cummings stated that the home
retained many original features and that the Commission would enjoy touring it.
Ms. Brabender Mattox remembered that the state had concerns with the potential for damage to the
Grand Opera House from the proposed signage and mentioned that this had held up the project. She
was appreciative that the state was solicitous with historic buildings because sometimes people would
simply undertake work without realizing the damage it could cause to the historic fabric. Mr. Wiley
explained that staff had gone back and forth with Mr. Ferlo, the sign contractor, and the state and Mr.
Fredrickson of Appleton Sign had send him an image showing the template for the mounting plates
and through bolts lined up precisely with the mortar joints. This was sent through to the state
compliance reviewer who concurred and sent her formal concurrence back. Mr. Wiley then approved
the zoning for the sign permit and talked to Inspections. He placed several conditions on the permit
and emailed them to Mr. Ferlo and the other individuals involved and copied all of the relevant staff at
the City. One condition that he put was that the plates had to match with the mortar as Mr.
Fredrickson showed (for all plates/bolts). He also placed a condition on the mounting of the Festival
plaque (through mortar). He also mentioned that he had placed a condition that required inspections
of the installed through bolts and plates prior to subsequent sign installation steps occurring. Ms.
Brabender Mattox thanked Mr. Wiley for the thorough conditions.
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Cummings if the Landmarks Commission could send a letter of
sympathy to Mr. Heine's family along with a thank you. He stated that sending a letter would be nice
but suggested waiting until after the obituary. He stated that he had received a phone call a few days
after Mr. Heine's passing. He believed a funeral or remembrance service would occur in Oshkosh.
12. Adjournment
Mr. Cummings made a motion to adjourn and Ms. Stoll Olthoff seconded. Meeting adjourned at 4:34
pm (4-0).
Recorded by:
Steven Wiley, AICP,Associate Planner