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Minutes
September 91h-2020
PRESENT: Shirley Brabender Mattox, Steve Cummings,Andrew Smith, Gerald Jacklin, Kristopher
Ulrich (attended via Webex)
EXCUSED: Paul Arnold, Nikki Stoll Olthoff, Deb Allison-Aasby
ABSENT: Elizabeth Hintz
STAFF AND OTHERS: Steven Wiley
1. Call to Order
Ms. Brabender Mattox called the meeting to order at 3:03 p.m. and a quorum was declared present.
2. Approval of August 121h,2020 Meeting Minutes
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked the Commission if there were any revisions for the August meeting
minutes. She noted that for Item 4 (1523 North Main Street—Potential Historic Plaque—
Discussion/Action) the line where the minutes state that, "Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that usually the
Commission went off of exterior images." She stated that if she had said this it was a mistake and that
the Commission would look at what was visible from the right-of-way. She explained that the decision
to proceed with an historic plaque was too important to rely only on photographs. Mr. Wiley stated
that he could make a note on the September 9t''meeting minutes that Ms. Brabender Mattox raised this
point. No Commissioners had any other comments on the minutes so the Commission approved the
minutes as written 5-0 (Cumm1ngs1jack11n).
3. Building Permit Review
Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that there were many large budget items included in the building
permit review. She asked if late permits had any ramifications for Landmarks. Mr. Wiley explained
that late permits were cases where the owner or contractor started the work prior to obtaining a permit.
Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that she had attempted to connect with the property owners of 415
Hazel, 429 Linde, and 626 Amherst. She stated that two of these three were in the Washington Avenue
Historic District and one was in the Irving Church Historic District. She asked if staff could find out
whether Inspections provided tax credit brochures to the owners. Mr. Wiley stated that he could ask
Inspections staff and it would be a matter of finding out who the Inspectors on Duty were and seeing if
they had a recollection of providing the brochures to people. She asked if staff could have a standard
process for giving tax credit brochures to people when permits are issued. Mr.Wiley answered that
this would be a greater discussion with Community Development Director Allen Davis, Planning
Services Manager Mark Lyons, and Chief Building Official John Zarate. The Department and Division
Heads would determine what standard process/expectations were of staff issuing permits. Mr. Wiley
explained that staff would have to coordinate. Mr. Cummings stated that many times the contractor
obtains the permits rather than the property owner. He stated that oftentimes SHPO review processes
could take awhile and this was a factor outside the owner's control. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that
education was very important. Mr.Jacklin supported informing people about the tax credit programs.
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she would be contacting the three property owners she mentioned.
Mr. Cummings asked what the turnaround time was from the State Historic Preservation Office for
decisions on tax credit projects. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that it was possible to go on the police
blotter and look back at every interaction. She stated that something similar for building permits
would be beneficial for Landmarks. Mr. Wiley showed the Commission how to access the online
permitting portal to see building permits for each property.
4. Historic Plaque Criteria—Discussion/Action
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that Mr. Wiley provided the list of historic plaques Landmarks presented
so far and she had highlighted the presentations. Landmarks gave 10 presentations. Ms. Brabender
Mattox explained that Landmarks had 10 plaques listed for Megan Lang and Eric Hoopman. She asked
what the problem was for Mr. Hoopman's plaques and whether he had enough money or not. Mr.
Cummings stated that they lacked interest. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Mr. Cummings was the
contact person for the 10 Lang/Hoopman plaques. He stated that he was and he talked to them
multiple times. Ms. Brabender Mattox said that she would try to reach out to Megan Lang and Eric
Hoopman as their former teacher. She said that there was a building Downtown associated with Lewis
Hine where he grew up in Downtown Oshkosh living over a store. He significantly influenced
photography and the building's association with him was very significant and warranted a plaque.
She stated that the effort to complete the plaque project for Megan Lang and Eric Hoopman would take
time.
Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that Landmarks currently had the brochure from David Buck's time
as staff person and that it discussed what was included on the plaque,how an owner could obtain a
plaque, etc. She stated that for the required research on the properties usually the owners had not
completed research. Property owners often relied on Landmarks and the Commission did research for
them.
Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the criteria section. She mentioned the line at the bottom of the
"Eligible Structures" section of the brochure stating "Properties that are the site of a significant local,
state, or national event, or which identify with a person or persons who significantly contributed to the
development of the city, state, or nation could also qualify." She stated that this line should be moved
up as a bullet point. Mr.Jacklin stated that the last line could be combined with the number 3 bullet
point. Commissioners stated that the last line was already included in numbers 2 and 3. They
recommended considering removal of it since it was in the existing list of criteria.
Mr. Cummings explained that David Buck used to do the research for the plaques. The Commission
would then give the owner this information when presenting the plaques.
Mr. Ulrich asked if Mr.Wiley had distributed the paperwork that he contributed out to the rest of the
Commission. Mr. Wiley answered that he had done so.
Mr. Ulrich stated that he had looked at cities in Wisconsin and Illinois, and he said that Landmarks
could revise the existing historic plaque brochure. The existing brochure had kerning and spacing
issues and was too wordy based on the research findings and input Mr. Ulrich obtained. Mr. Ulrich
stated that Landmarks could condense it considerably and recommended taking out the application
and creating it as a separate application that staff could place on the City website and make available
for owners to fill out. He thought that the brochure needed an overhaul. Mr.Jacklin agreed. Mr.
Cummings recommended that if the brochure included photos the images should not always use big,
expensive homes. Mr. Smith agreed. Mr. Cummings stated that homes did not always have to be big
to qualify. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the brochure had two photos of the downtown. Both
were commercial. She recommended one photo of downtown and one of something else. Mr.
Cummings suggested that if using an image of a downtown building it would be beneficial to use a
building that has a plaque on it. Mr. Ulrich stated that there was a house at 617 Grove that would be a
good residential example.
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that there were too many eligibility criteria and they overlap when
talking about architecture. She suggested combining the criterion on the brochure mentioning, "Is
characteristic of an architectural style" with the one in front of it. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if in
cases where the property was landmarked or eligible for the registers would that automatically qualify
the property for the plaque program. Mr. Ulrich answered that research he came across revealed
precedents for determining that such properties were pre-qualified.
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that for criterion 4 (association with a master builder) she thought of
Raycraft or CR Meyer. It also tied in with the quality of the structure which was the next point so one
of the criteria was redundant.
She mentioned architectural style and that the question was whether a property was an excellent
example. For example Greek Revivals in Oshkosh were rare. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that
tightening up the brochure text and having fewer bulletpoints and words would help. Mr. Ulrich
stated that he would take on the work of redoing the brochure and mocking up an application with
City help.
Mr. Cummings suggested implying in the brochure that an historic plaque could add to the value of a
property. Mr. Ulrich asked if he could get the minutes from the September meeting as soon as possible
rather than a week before the October meeting. Mr. Wiley stated that he would get Mr.Ulrich the
minutes upon completing them.
5. Smith School National Register Nomination -Update
Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the Smith School National Register Nomination. She explained that
she had asked Mr. Wiley to print part of the national register nomination so new Commissioners could
see what went into a nomination. Usually the nominations were 30-40 pages and what was in the
packets was part of the nomination. Readers could glean a lot of information and it the nominations
were learning documents. In reading a nomination Commissioners would have an idea of what went
into them. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that communities could get a CLG grant from the state to hire
a consultant to write up nominations. She asked Mr. Wiley to explain the Smith School nomination.
Due to technical issues, Mr. Ulrich left around 3:50 PM.
Mr. Wiley explained the process and that this nomination was submitted by Gail Klein of UWM
Cultural Resources Management to SHPO for consideration by the review board. Landmarks could
submit comments in support of the nominations also. Tim Hess (one of the partners in the project)
commissioned Gail Klein at UWM Cultural Resources Management to research and write the
nomination for Smith School. Ms. Brabender Mattox and Mr. Cummings attended past hearings in
Madison for nominations. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she had submitted statements of support
for nominations in the past. She had been in touch with Tim on when the hearing for Smith School
would occur. She emphasized the need to have Landmarks representation there in support of
nominations. She asked Mr.Wiley when he received the nomination. Mr. Wiley answered that he had
received it the previous month. She asked Mr. Wiley if he would let the commission know when the
request for comment came in. Mr. Wiley stated that he would let them know. Mr.Jacklin asked if the
developer cared about historic character of the property. Mr.Wiley answered that Mr. Hess did care
and had been concerned from the beginning. Ms.Brabender Mattox stated that she had filled out the
Smith School nomination questionnaire in two days. Mr.Jacklin observed that the exterior of the
property appeared to be well maintained. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the building was
architecture by William Waters and Auler,Jensen and Brown. She stated that if the community did not
save the building the neighborhood would lose an anchor. Tim Hess was paying for the nomination to
be written just like the owners of the Fraternal Reserve Building did for their property. SM said the
state had oversight so Landmarks could have assurance that the project would be done right.
Mr.Jacklin mentioned the Cabrini School. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked where Cabrini School was at in
the National Register process. Mr. Wiley stated that he was not sure and would have to follow up. He
stated that he would keep the Commission updated.
6. Historic Preservation Plan— Steven Wiley—Update
Mr. Wiley provided an update on the preservation plan. Mr. Wiley explained about the CLG process
and that staff was working on applying for a 2020 CLG grant. Mr.Wiley also explained that staff held
off on scheduling another preservation plan workshop because most people could not make the three
dates Mr. Wiley put out there. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she wrote the first CLG grant
applications and that Mr. Wiley should explain to the state that Oshkosh had not applied for CLG
funding for the intensive resources surveys because the city found other funding means. Ms.
Brabender Mattox explained that Joe DeRose at the state thought this was very clever and that the state
wanted to see municipalities doing their parts. Mr. Smith stated that he needed to leave at this point(4:16
pm).
7. Social Media—Discussion/Action
This item was not discussed due to a loss of quorum.
8. Commissioner Statements
This item was not discussed due to a loss of quorum.
9. Agenda Items for Next Meeting(October 141h,2020: 3 PM in City Hall Room 203)
This item was not discussed due to a loss of quorum.
10. Outstanding Issues
This item was not discussed due to a loss of quorum.
Mr. Jacklin made a motion to adjourn and Mr. Cummings seconded. Meeting adjourned at 4:16 pm (4-
0).
Recorded by:
Steven Wiley,Associate Planner