HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutesCITY OF OSHKOSH LANDMARKS COMMISSION
Minutes
February 121h, 2020
PRESENT: Shirley Brabender Mattox, Paul Arnold, Nikki Stoll Olthoff, Steve Cummings, Andrew
Smith, Gerald Jacklin
EXCUSED: None
ABSENT: Elizabeth Hintz, Matt Mugerauer
STAFF AND OTHERS: Steven Wiley, Nancy Lokken, Michelle Lokken
1. Call to Order
Chair Brabender Mattox called the meeting to order at 3:03 p.m. and a quorum was declared present.
She asked everyone present to introduce him or herself to the Commission and guests. Mr. Jacklin
introduced himself as the newest Landmarks Commissioner. He had a personal interest in older
houses and had worked in Information Technology at UW-Oshkosh. Mr. Smith introduced himself
also as a new member of the Commission and stated that he had lived on Jackson Street since 1995.
Michelle Lokken introduced herself and stated that she was on the County Historical Society board and
interested in the Smith School discussion. Nancy Lokken explained that she had brought the Smith
School item forward to Mr. Wiley. She was initially concerned with the fate of the Smith School
boulder and plaque. The rest of the Landmarks Commissioners provided brief introductions.
2. Approval of January 81h 2020 Meeting Minutes
Ms. Brabender Mattox asked the Commission if there were any revisions for the January meeting
minutes. Ms. Stoll Olthoff asked Mr. Wiley to revise Item 8 of the minutes where the minutes stated;
"Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that she was in the middle because she believed that there were ways to
reword the fifth plaque but that the statements on the fifth plaque were historically accurate." She
stated that a more accurate phrasing would be: "Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that she believed the fifth
plaque could be reworded but that the topics addressed in the text were worth discussing." The
Commission voted 4-0-2 to approve the minutes with revisions (Cummings/Arnold, Abstain —
Smith1jacklin).
3. Building Permit Review
a) Beede Residence — Update
This item was moved to after Item 4. Mr. Wiley provided an update and due to a computer virus he
was not able to provide the building permit list for the month of January. He updated the Commission
on the proposal Mike Karrels presented in January for the Beede Residence at 1057 Algoma Boulevard.
He stated that Mr. Karrels had reached out to Mark Buechel at the Wisconsin Historical Society and
obtained input. Mr. Buechel had explained that the WHS would deny the project if they had review
authority over it. Input from Mr. Buechel included the following:
• Changing or removing a date stone on the garage addition since the stone had the year of the
house's construction rather than the year of the garage construction.
• Simplifying the window openings/not using arched window openings for the garage
• Removing/simplifying the rafter dovetails for the roof of the garage
Mr. Wiley stated that he would work with Mike Karrels on the required zoning reviews and notifying
the state on the proposed demolition of the existing garage. He explained to the Commission that the
owner of the residence at 1057 Algoma Boulevard seemed committed to the proposed design and that
he did not foresee any major changes to the design.
4. Smith School - Boulder and Plaque - Discussion
This item was shifted to before Item 4 out of respect for the guests' time. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if
Nancy Lokken went to Smith School. Ms. Lokken replied that she had attended and was in the
Kindergarten class of 1964. Her class was the last sixth grade class to attend Smith School. Ms. Lokken
had previously expressed her concern at the school board since the building was not on the National or
State Registers. She was worried about preservation initially, but was less concerned since the new
owners were wanting to maintain the building. She stated that she was curious about the plaque and
boulder and asked if Landmarks had purview over the plaque and boulder. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated
that co-owner Tim Hess had contacted her and that she had contacted State Historic Preservation Officer
Daina Penkiunas. Ms. Penkiunas had suggested proceeding with the National Register nomination for
the site. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that Mr. Hess had told her that there was no reason the plaque
and boulder should be moved. Therefore, she believed that the plaque and boulder had a good chance
of remaining protected on site. Nancy Lokken asked if the school and plaque were ever considered
landmarks. She asked what constituted a landmark for the City. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the
whole Smith School complex could be designated. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that Landmarks wouldn't
have review authority or the ability to stop demolition. Mr. Wiley explained the difference between
landmarking a property and National/State Register designation. He stated that landmarked properties
were designated under the local preservation ordinance and that they met one or more criteria laid out
in the ordinance. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the Smith School complex and sign would be
respected. Mr. Arnold commended Ms. Lokken for doing her due diligence as a citizen by sharing her
concerns with the school board. Michelle Lokken stated that she had an interest in history and was in
the process of writing a book on Old Oshkosh. She stated that her book contained postcards from the
period between the 1890s and 1930s in 6 chapters. Ms. Brabender Mattox thanked the Lokkens for being
citizen advocates of preservation. Mr. Arnold stated that legally in Oshkosh the property owners had
much leeway on what they could do with their properties.
5.2019 Annual Report - Update
Mr. Wiley explained that he had the annual report draft and due to the recent computer virus had not
had a chance to finalize it according to Commission input. He stated that when computer and network
access were restored, he would work with Ms. Brabender Mattox on finalizing the report for submission
to the state.
6.2020 Acanthus Awards - Discussion/Action
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the Acanthus Awards were done annually and were given in May.
There were five categories of Acanthus Awards. Mr. Cummings asked if there were any potential
nominees leftover from the previous year. Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the Waite project. She also
mentioned Richard Nebel and his blog on William Waters. Mr. Arnold mentioned the wood church on
the South side of the river across from Grace Lutheran. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that the church
could have eligibility for the National Register. Ms. Brabender Mattox requested that Commissioners let
Mr. Wiley know if they thought of any potential nominees.
7. Chief Oshkosh — Steve Cummings - Update
Mr. Cummings stated that he had worked on this project since 2015 and that it had started with a friend
of his who donated funding to the city. Mr. Cummings stated that he had worked on additional
fundraising and that he had asked the Menominee Nation to write the text. He stated that the
Commission and city could not write it. He later involved Dennis Zack from UW-Oshkosh and then
Pascale Manning. The project expanded from one marker to four and later a fifth marker. There was
some controversy regarding the project and Mr. Cummings and Mr. Wiley had met with different
departments of the city. The text was deemed too lengthy and some text was deemed too controversial.
Mr. Cummings stated that the next step was to meet with Professor Manning, shorten the text and
simplify the wording. He stated that a meeting with Mr. Zack, Professor Manning, him and Mr. Wiley
was the next step. He stated that he was still working on funding.
Mr. Smith asked where the Chief Oshkosh statue was located. Mr. Cummings answered that it was
located in Menominee Park just north of the zoo.
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that one person on the state historical society staff was a liaison between
the twelve tribes and that she did two presentations at the Lake Geneva convention. Ms. Brabender
Mattox stated that she would reach out to her.
Mr. Cummings stated that he would contact the Wisconsin Humanities Council for funding. He
explained that the signage was not meant to be a political statement but rather to convey the history.
Commissioners discussed that a QR code could take visitors to s specific narrative. Ms. Stoll Olthoff and
Ms. Brabender Mattox spoke against the use of color signs such as the Riverwalk signage. They stated
that the signs would not last as long as bronze. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she wanted bronze
signage mounted on boulders. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stepped out at this point (4:07 pin). Mr. Cummings stated
that funding was a factor. Mr. Arnold asked Mr. Cummings if he knew how donors would feel about
the use of plastic signs. Mr. Cummings stated that he was not sure. Mr. Cummings stated that the Parks
and Museum staff wanted standardized signs. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stepped back in (4:09 pm). Commissioners
expressed their preference to see bronze signage mounted on boulders. Mr. Wiley explained that the
Commission could not take formal action at this point because the item was not listed as an agenda item.
S. Historic Preservation Plan — Steven Wiley - Update
Mr. Wiley stated that once he had computer and network access he could put out dates for another plan
workshop. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that a regular date would be beneficial. Mr. Cummings asked if Mr.
Wiley could send out a Doodle poll. Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the 2005 Historic Survey and that
she wanted to do another. She stated that she would consider printing copies of the 2005 survey if people
would use it.
S. Lakeshore Historic Site - Discussion
Mr. Cummings provided an update on the Lakeshore site and stated that coordination with Oshkosh
Corporation would be important in the research and writing of the signage. Mr. Arnold asked if anyone
had heard back from the archeologists. Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the test pits that were done on
the Lakeshore site to the new Commissioners. She stated that a small area of land was available for the
Registers. She was waiting on the State to hear back from their archeologists on the findings and wanted
to get the state's opinions on how to work with the land. She explained that she would get suggestions
from the state. Mr. Jacklin asked if part of the Lakeshore site would become a park. Ms. Brabender
Mattox answered affirmatively. Mr. Cummings suggested that Landmarks take on the signage project.
10. Social Media - Discussion/Action
Mr. Wiley explained that he had not posted much due to a lack of computer access. He suggested that if
Commissioners had material that they send it to him.
11. Commissioner Statements
a. 404 W. New York Avenue: Local Landmarking - Shirley Brabender Mattox/Rich Green
Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she had received an email from Rich Green and that he was
planning to visit. Mr. Arnold had found photographs from 1915. Mr. Green wanted to pursue
landmarking of the property and National Register listing.
b. Winnebago County Historic and Archeological Society (WCHAS) 100 Years - Update - Steve
Cummings
Mr. Cummings mentioned the book Historic Winiiebago County - The People, The Water, The Past,
and explained that the county Historical Society had just published the book. Ms. Stoll Olthoff
stated that she had seen the book available at Planet Perk.
c. 2020 State of the City: March 9f, 2020 - Steven Wiley
Mr. Wiley updated the Commission on the 2020 event. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she
would be there. Mr. Wiley informed the commissioners that they were invited to attend and
that he would have information on display there.
d. Grand Opera House Interior Modifications - Steven Wiley
Mr. Wiley stated that he had been in touch with Jane Cryan who brought the issue forward to
the Commission. Ms. Cryan had decided to withdraw her complaint concerning the screens at
the Grand. Mr. Arnold explained to the new commissioners that television screens were
installed at the base of the proscenium arch in the Grand. The decision to install the screens had
not come through the Commission and he stated that the screens should have come through the
Commission. Mr. Cummings stated that he was on the facilities committee of the Grand and
that he had told the committee that any changes had to go through the Landmarks Commission.
16. Agenda Items for Next Meeting (March 11th, 2020: 3 PM in City Hall Room 203)
Ongoing items such as the Building Permit Review, Historic Preservation Plan, Lakeshore site and
Chief Oshkosh signage would remain on the agenda. Any other items that Commissioners brought
forward or came up would go on the agenda. 2020 Acanthus Awards would also be on the agenda.
Ms. Brabender Mattox also wanted the WAHPC Conference scheduled for April 2411, and 2511, in
Marshfield to be placed on the agenda. She also asked to have Dale School put on the agenda as a
comment. Mr. Cummings stated that he wanted more extensive conversations on what the
Commission wanted for signage along the lakefront. He suggested that staff involve Parks Director
Ray Maurer.
17. Adjournment
Mr. Arnold made a motion to adjourn and Ms. Stoll Olthoff seconded. Meeting adjourned at 4:50 pm (6-
0).
Recorded by:
Steven Wiley, Assistant Planner