HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES
November 19,2019
PRESENT: Mamadou Coulibaly, Lynnsey Erickson, Thomas Fojtik, Michael Ford,John Hinz,
John Kiefer,Justin Mitchell, Thomas Perry, Kathleen Propp
EXCUSED: Derek Groth, Lori Palmeri
STAFF: Allen Davis, Director Community Development;Mark Lyons,Planning Services
Manager;Kelly Nieforth, Economic Development Services Manager;Justin Gierach,
Engineering Division Manager/City Engineer;Brian Slusarek, Planner;Jeff Nau,
Associate Planner; Steven Wiley,Assistant Planner; Mina Kuss, Recording Secretary
Vice Chairperson Propp called the meeting to order at 4:00 pm. Roll call was taken and a quorum
declared present.
The minutes of November 5,2019 were approved as presented. (Hinz/Mitchell)
I. EXTRATERRITORIAL TWO-LOT LAND DIVISION/CERTIFIED SURVEY MAP AT
THE NORTH 3400 BLOCK OF BLACK WOLF AVENUE IN THE TOWN OF NEKIMI
Site Inspections: Report: No commissioners reported visiting the site.
Staff report accepted as part of the record.
The petitioner is seeking approval of a two-lot land division/Certified Survey Map (CSM) and
right-of-way dedication from one existing 40.069 acre parcel. The site is located on the north side
of Black Wolf Avenue in the Town of Nekimi, approximately 1/4 mile east of Interstate 41 and 1.25
miles south of the Oshkosh city limits. Sizes of the proposed lots and right-of-way dedication are
as follows:
Lot 1 = 1,266,541 sq. ft. (29.076 Acres)
Lot 2=435,138 sq. ft. (9.989 Acres)
Right-of-Way Dedication=43,750 sq. ft. (1.004 Acres)
Mr. Nau presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area as well as the land use
and zoning classifications in this area. The applicant states in the application that the purpose of
the land division is to allow construction of a single family home on the ten-acre parcel. Current
allowable uses are dictated by the underlying zone district and regulated by Winnebago County.
Any proposed zone change must be consistent with the City's Comprehensive Plan. Winnebago
County's Farmland Preservation Plan identifies the site within an Agricultural District and
enrolled with the County's Farmland Preservation Program. It will be the responsibility of the
property own to get necessary approvals from the county to allow any proposed development on
Plan Commission Minutes 1 November 19,2019
the site. The Department of Public Works has reviewed the proposed two-lot Certified Survey
Map and commented that there may be wetlands located on the property. A wetland delineation
may be required prior to any development as determined by Winnebago County. He said staff
recommends approval of the two-lot land division/Certified Survey Map at the north 3400 Block of
Black Wolf Avenue as proposed.
Ms. Propp opened technical questions to staff.
Mr. Mitchell asked if Mr. Nau knew what it entails to be a participant in the Farmland Preservation
program or if there were any incentives.
Mr. Nau replied he does not know what the incentive is.
Ms. Propp asked if there were any public comments and asked if the applicant wanted to make
any statements.
There were no statements from the applicant.
There were no public comments on this item.
Ms. Propp closed public comments and asked if the applicant wanted to make any closing
statements.
There were no closing statements from the applicant.
Motion by Hinz to adopt the findings and recommendation as stated in the staff report.
Seconded by Coulibaly.
Ms. Propp asked if there was any discussion on the motion.
There was no discussion on the motion.
Motion carried 7-0.
II. PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR AN OUTDOOR
STORAGE USE AT 36 E. 10th AVENUE
Site Inspections: Report: Mr. Hinz and Ms. Propp reported visiting the site.
Staff report accepted as part of the record.
The applicant is requesting a Conditional Use Permit to establish an outdoor storage use on a
previously developed lot.
Plan Commission Minutes 2 November 19,2019
Mr. Slusarek presented the item and reviewed the site and surrounding area as well as the land
use and zoning classifications in this area. The petitioner is requesting approval of a Conditional
Use Permit to use the existing gravel area to the east of the building for recycling of construction
materials such as concrete and asphalt. According to the applicant the raw material will be
stockpiled and processed into base course material used on construction projects. The proposed
storage area was previously used to stockpile and stage various metals for recycling and the area is
enclosed with chain link and slatted fencing. The applicant is currently storing their materials on
the lot immediately to the north of the subject site, across E. 9th Avenue. According to the
applicant, the traffic operations of trucks entering and exiting the site for delivery of material will
be similar to previous operations. The Department of Public Works reviewed the proposal is
requesting a condition that storage be prohibited 10' either way of the storm sewer and water main
and minimum 4' tall chain link fencing be installed to prevent materials from encroaching into the
20' wide area. He said staff recommends approval of the proposed Conditional Use Permit for an
outdoor storage area at 36 E. 10th Avenue as proposed with the findings and conditions as listed in
the staff report.
Ms. Propp opened up technical questions to staff.
Mr. Hinz stated he knows the request is in harmony with the Comprehensive Plan but was curious
how the relatively new Sawdust District would impact the area.
Mr. Lyons replied it is why staff put a two year clause in the conditions. He said staff understands
the applicant has an immediate need. He said after two years,it should give enough time for the
District to evolve and redevelop the area.
Mr. Coulibaly inquired about the term limitation and future plans for the area.
Mr. Lyons explained it is because of the long-range plan of the Sawdust District as a
redevelopment area. He reiterated the applicant has an immediate need but the plan is to find
them a permanent site elsewhere.
Ms. Propp stated she was confused because the land is owned by Sadoff Iron and Metal Company
but it is Vinton Construction who will be storing the materials which is basically the same stuff
they are storing to the north.
Mr. Lyons replied correct. He explained the property to the north is owned by the City and the
City is looking to have the materials removed from the property as redevelopment and an RFP
goes out for redevelopment of the site.
Ms. Propp stated she drove past the site many times and it did not look appealing. She said there
were big tall mounds.
Mr. Lyons reiterated that is why staff added the two year clause as a condition. He again stated
the applicant has an immediate need but understands it is not going to be long term.
Plan Commission Minutes 3 November 19,2019
Ms. Propp questioned if Vinton Construction will be leasing the property.
Mr. Lyons replied he does not know the specifics.
Ms. Propp asked if the request is approved,the materials would be moved temporarily.
Mr. Lyons replied affirmatively.
Ms. Propp asked if a new fence would be installed around Sadoff to replace the current disrepaired
fence.
Mr. Lyons explained part of the requirement for outdoor storage is that code requires 8' solid
fencing.
Ms. Propp asked if the current slated fencing was considered a solid fence.
Mr. Lyons explained there are certain types of slated fencing that are considered solid fencing such
as interwoven fencing.
Mr. Lyons and Mr. Slusarek stated there is a 90% opacity requirement.
Ms. Propp asked if in theory, the current fence would be replaced.
Mr. Lyons replied the applicant will need at a minimum to add the required fencing which is the 8'
solid fencing.
Ms. Propp opened up the public hearing and asked if the applicant wanted to make any
statements.
Bill Vashon,3920 Jenkel Terrace in Green Bay(applicant), stated he is an environmental scientist
for Vinton Construction. He said this is a short-term storage and they are currently looking for a
long-term crushing location in the city. He said the city is asking them to move their materials and
he said hopefully by the spring the materials will be gone and they will have a new permanent site.
He believes it will take less than two year to relocate.
Ms. Propp stated there is an awful lot of stuff at the current site. She inquired what will happen
with the materials at the current site.
Mr. Vashon replied all the materials will get moved. He explained they are done with the 2019
season. He explained there is a large portion of material that is owned by the city. He stated their
materials are on the west end which is the material that will be relocated.
Ms. Propp commented the city would move their own material.
Plan Commission Minutes 4 November 19,2019
Mr. Vashon replied he thinks with the demolition project to the north, the city would be using the
materials as backfill material.
Mr. Lyons added from his understanding, the City has acquired some of the properties to the north
of the location and would need fill after the demolition process.
Mr. Kiefer asked if Mr. Vashon was agreeable to the fence around the water main.
Mr. Vashon stated he would prefer a jersey barrier over the 4' chain link fence. He explained chain
link fence would not hold material if a backhoe or end loader was scooping it. He said it would
push through the chain link fence. He said if there was a jersey barrier,it would prevent that from
happening.
Mr. Lyons commented they could amend the condition.
Mr. Mitchell asked how long debris has been stored in that area.
Mr. Vashon replied about six to eight years.
Mr. Mitchell asked during that time,how many times or has any sort of environmental review or
water quality contamination assessment been done.
Mr. Vashon replied to his knowledge, there hasn't been any environmental release on the property
during Vinton Construction's time on the property that would require such an environmental
audit or investigation.
Mr. Mitchell asked if there was any sort of assessment that has ever been done due to the
proximity of the lake where it could have a potential to pollute or have a water quality impact.
Mr. Vashon questioned what specific materials Mr.Mitchell was referring to.
Mr. Mitchell said asphalt, which has potential contaminates and concrete can as well. He said he
was not sure what other materials were being stored on the site.
Mr. Vashon said the typical construction materials are pretty neutral as far as contaminates that
could be concerning to impacts to ground water or surface water. He said the biggest issue is dust
but that is more of a nuisance complaint during crushing. He explained the crushing operations
are set up to have water during the crushing. He said if there are issues with dust on the roads,
water would be applied. He said he would have to do an environmental audit and clean up for
certain things like a transmission oil pan going in the truck,but that has not occurred since they
have been in the yard.
Bob Reinke, 900 S. Main Street, said he has been involved with the dirt end of the deal because
unfortunately Vinton has done their best but they don't do anything as far as killing the dust,
sweeping the road, watering the road or patching the road. He said he has complained numerous
Plan Commission Minutes 5 November 19,2019
times but can never find who to blame. He questioned why Vinton is not using the 1011,Avenue
entrance from Sadoff's property. He explained that 1011,Avenue is concrete and can hold up better
than 9t''Avenue which is asphalt. He stated he deals with the dust daily and has called to
complain to Darlene Brandt (Grants Coordinator for the City of Oshkosh). He said Ms. Brandt has
done her best to talk to the people at Vinton and Vinton has talked to their subcontractors who are
supposed to water the road and sweep the road. He stated it falls on deaf ears. He said the
conditions that have to be met for the Conditional Use Permit will not be met by Vinton.
Mr. Coulibaly asked if Mr. Reinke's main concerns were the dust and for Vinton to use 10tn
Avenue.
Mr. Reinke explained 10t''Avenue is concrete and 91''Avenue is asphalt. He said there are 30-40
trucks daily during the busy season. He said they do not water the road. He said the road should
be watered at least once every two hours. He said it is watered once maybe at 6:00am and at the
end of the day but nothing in-between. He said they have yet to sweep the roads and when they
do sweep it,they sweep it onto his driveway. He understands that they have to do what they have
to do but would like them to be neighborly and at least kill the dust.
Ms. Propp questioned if the conditions would be met.
Mr. Reinke replied the conditions have not been met yet. He suggested to contact Ms. Brandt to
find out how many times he has called. He stated he has talked to subcontractors, truckers, etc.
about the dust and they all blow him off. He stated when Vinton is there crushing, they do a great
job but the problem is when the material is being brought in and leaving or the subcontractors are
the one that are falling short.
There were no other public comments on this item.
Ms. Propp closed the public hearing and asked if the applicant wanted to make any closing
statements.
Mr. Vashon stated he does not have firsthand knowledge about the sweeping activities and
putting materials into Mr. Reinke's driveway. He said if that is occurring,it should not be
occurring. He said the material should be swept back into the yard. He said this is news to him
and he will take it up with the area managers.
Mr. Coulibaly asked about the dust issues and using 101"Avenue as the access point.
Mr. Vashon said if it is a condition Plan Commission would like to add to use 1011,Avenue, it
would not be a problem.
Mr. Mitchell said the condition states it must be watered during crushing but asked Mr. Vashon if
there was anything that could be done during the loading and unloading process.
Plan Commission Minutes 6 November 19,2019
Mr. Vashon explained the process of intake. He said the crushing operation starts when enough
material has been built up and there is watering during the crushing process. He explained the
road could dry out during the day depending on the weather. He said it sounds like they need to
do a better job sweeping and with the water application to the stock pile and yard itself.
Mr. Mitchell asked if Mr.Vashon would be opposed to adding watering during the unloading and
loading process.
Mr. Vashon said he would not be opposed to it.
Mr. Mitchell said one issue from Mr. Reinke was he did not know who to go to with issues. He
asked if there was a point of contact for Mr. Reinke.
Mr. Vashon said they would provide a point of contact to the city and they can give it out to
people who request it. He said it is a Conditional Use Permit and if the conditions are not met,
they would not get the permit.
Motion by Perry to adopt the findings and recommendation as stated in the staff report.
Conditions:
1. All materials being stored on site must be removed from the site within 2 years.
2. The storage area must be enclosed with minimum 8'tall solid fencing.
3. The site must be watered during crushing operations to mitigate dust.
4. East 9th Avenue must be watered during crushing operations to mitigate dust.
5. Debris must be removed from the East 9th Avenue public right-of-way
6. East 9th Avenue must be maintained and any damages must be repaired by the applicant.
7. Nothing may be stored within 10'of the storm sewer and water main and minimum 4'tall
chain link fencing must be installed 10'from the water main on both sides (east and west) to
prevent materials from encroaching into the 20'wide area.
Seconded by Hinz.
Ms. Propp asked if there was any discussion on the motion.
Plan Commission members and staff discussed amending conditions #3, #4 and #7.
Mr. Ford arrived at 4:24pm.
Ms. Propp asked if there was any reason why Plan Commission should not condition limiting the
applicant to using 10th Avenue.
Mr. Gierach said there is no reason not to use 10tt1 Avenue since it was just reconstructed in the last
ten years. He said 1011,Avenue would be easier to tell when it needs to be cleaned.
Plan Commission Minutes 7 November 19,2019
Mr. Kiefer asked it would make sense for them to keep using 911,Avenue since this is only a
temporary situation. He said 91h Avenue would take the wear instead of 1011,Avenue,which is a
newer street.
Mr. Gierach stated it would be his preference to keep using 9th Avenue but understands it doesn't
help the neighbors at all. He said with the Sawdust District, 9t''Avenue will be reconstructed in
the near future. He said he would prefer the wear on 9th Avenue but knows that 10th Avenue can
handle the wear as well.
Mr. Mitchell commented there are neighbors on 10th Avenue as well and it could be the same issue
but at a different neighbor.
Ms. Propp said personally she does not know if they should move it to 10th Avenue based on the
testimonies.
Mr. Coulibaly commented it would be good if they do something to mitigate the dust on 91"
Avenue.
Motion by Mitchell to amend conditions #3, #4 and#7 to state:
3. The site must be watered during crushing operations and general operations to mitigate
dust.
4. East 9th Avenue must be watered during crushing operations and general operations to
mitigate dust.
7. Nothing may be stored within 10'of the storm sewer and water main and minimum 4'tall
jersey style fencing must be installed 10'from the water main on both sides (east and west)
to prevent materials from encroaching into the 20'wide area.
Seconded by Erickson to amend the conditions.
Motion carried 7-0.
Mr. Fojtik arrived at 4:30pm.
Mr. Mitchell commented he appreciates Mr. Vashori s follow-up on water quality and he is
confident that Sadoff is doing excellent work with environmental protections. He said no polluter
admits to polluting. He said there has never been an assessment. He asked if there was any
requirement from the city to implement water quality protections.
Mr. Lyons replied those would be done through the Department of Natural Resources for any type
of water quality analysis and environmental impact.
Mr. Mitchell asked if the City didn't care. He questioned if the DNR didn't think it was necessary,
should the City feel the same.
Plan Commission Minutes 8 November 19,2019
Mr. Lyons explained the City usually does not have any jurisdictions to make those things happen.
He said the Department of Natural Resources,Army Corps of Engineers, etc. are the entities that
do have regulations and enforcement options for those things. He stated it is not that the City does
not care.
Mr. Mitchell asked if the applicant needs to get a DNR permit to be able to store. He also asked if
the DNR was aware of this storage taking place.
Mr. Lyons said they may need an air permit but it is something staff can follow-up on.
Mr. Davis said one of the issues he sees here is that it has always been hard surface and usually the
DNR does not get involved unless they are changing it from a green surface to a hard surface. He
said he was not sure if the DNR would even regulate it. He said they have a threshold of
disturbing 20,000 sq. ft.before the city does a drainage review of the property. He said there has
been rubble on the site since he has been at the city and he does not know what the plan was
before that. He said the complaints he has received were due to the puddles and drainage not due
to water quality. He said he believes they do require the applicant to protect all the inlets on the
site. He stated that is the best answer he can give for an impervious surface going to an
impervious surface.
Mr. Mitchell asked if the city has limits or imposes any sort of requirements besides fencing for
storage even if the materials being stored may pollute the ground.
Mr. Lyons reiterated it is typically something the DNR does.
Mr. Mitchell asked if the city does anything.
Mr. Lyons stated it is not a zoning related issue so they do not regulate it through the land use
regulation.
Mr. Davis commented from his experience it has come up because of an elicit discharge but did not
know who followed-up with elicit discharges.
Mr. Lyons said it is not something that is regulated with the Zoning Ordinance.
Mr. Mitchell requested for Mr. Vashon to speak again. He said the city does not regulate the
environmental issue and that the DNR does. He asked if the DNR is involved in any of the storage
of materials.
Mr. Vashon replied the DNR is not involved. He said there is not really any type of chemical
found in the materials even the recycled asphalt. He explained the DNR does regulate the
crushing by the air permit and that is why there is a requirement for dust mitigation. He said the
only time the department would get involved is if they had a release on a gravel surface over five
gallons which would require DNR notification. He said if it were on an impervious surface, it
would have to be over 25 gallons. He said it is really the equipment that carries the oils whereas
Plan Commission Minutes 9 November 19,2019
the material is a natural occurring product. He said in his opinion the environmental impact
would be due to the equipment not the material. He said they have spill kits for the equipment, do
audits and have environmental investigations.
Mr. Mitchell asked if the city would have to do an assessment on the previous site to the north
before developing such as soil borings to see if there is a potential issue. He said if there is an issue
due to the materials, what would be the recourse.
Mr. Lyons replied if there was a contaminant on that site due to the crushing, they would work
with the DNR.
Mr. Mitchell questioned if it should be a condition to address any potential contaminate issue.
Mr. Lyons explained the current CUP laws in the State of Wisconsin state that conditions can only
be place if it is directly related to the land use and activity of it. He said typically environmental
have not been legally been found to be those unless it is something directly related to water runoff
or something of that nature. He said the land use activity of storage has not been seen to have
those types of impacts. He said staff worked with legal on some other potential language but were
told they could only add conditions based on the activity which is crushing and storage. He said
getting into environmental is not legally standing under the current CUP laws.
Motion carried 8-0-1 (Abstained:Fojtik) to approve the initial motion.
Final conditions to state:
1. All materials being stored on site must be removed from the site within 2 years.
2. The storage area must be enclosed with minimum 8' tall solid fencing.
3. The site must be watered during crushing operations and general operations to mitigate
dust.
4. East 9th Avenue must be watered during crushing operations and general operations to
mitigate dust.
5. Debris must be removed from the East 9th Avenue public right-of-way
6. East 9th Avenue must be maintained and any damages must be repaired by the applicant.
7. Nothing may be stored within 10'of the storm sewer and water main and minimum 4'tall
jersey style fencing must be installed 10'from the water main on both sides (east and west)
to prevent materials from encroaching into the 20'wide area.
PLANNING DIRECTOR'S REPORT
Direction from Plan Commission on Use of Digital Agendas and Packets
Mr. Lyons discussed the possibility of going to digital agendas and packets. He said Mayor
Palmeri during the current budget process evaluated paper usage throughout the departments.
He stated that Plan Commission was one of the highest paper generating boards,right behind
Council. He said the Mayor has approval to get Plan Commission members tablets which means
there would be no more paper packets delivered. He said they are looking at getting the board
Plan Commission Minutes 10 November 19,2019
Wads. He said it was conditioned by the Council that it would have to be a unanimous decision by
the board. He asked if anyone was opposed to going digital.
Mr. Hinz asked if there would be color and better quality visuals.
Mr. Lyons replied affirmatively.
Ms. Propp asked for what the process what would like for looking at the staff reports from the
tablet.
Mr. Lyons answered he was not sure about the details but it would be similar to what Council is
doing.
Ms. Erickson commented she noticed some of the links are not mobile friendly but did not know if
that would be the case for the tablets.
Mr. Lyons said he would have to look into that.
Mr. Coulibaly asked for confirmation that the information can be downloaded onto the tablet. He
also asked if there was a way he could take notes on the tablet.
Mr. Lyons confirmed and he said most tablets allow taking notes. He said to further address Mr.
Hinz, there would be color, more images and more images imbedded in the staff report. He
pointed out how staff added pictures to the staff reports. He explained everything that is
produced now is in color but it is printed in black and white.
Ms. Propp said she is for it but does like paper. She said she hopes it will be user friendly.
Mr. Lyons commented it would not prevent members from printing out items at home.
Mr. Mitchell asked if there would still be paper copies for the public.
Mr. Lyons confirmed there would be.
Mr. Coulibaly asked if members could occasionally request a printed copy.
Mr. Lyons said yes but it would be in black and white. He said the goal is to go digital,be more
environmentally friendly and being more sustainable. He said the device will be supplied to the
members from the City and the members may have to sign a user agreement.
Mr. Fojtik commented he thinks it is a great idea and said if his kids can handle Chromebooks then
so can he.
Mr. Lyons said talking with Council, it seems like they are leaning towards Wads because they are
a little more user friendly.
Plan Commission Minutes 11 November 19,2019
Mr. Coulibaly asked if everyone will have the same uniform system.
Mr. Lyons confirmed. He said all the items that are sent out are already in a PDF format and PDFs
are usually universally usable on devices. He said mobile does get a little trickier.
Plan Commission unanimously approved of going to digital for Plan Commission packets.
Mr. Lyons stated he would reach out to the members that were not in attendance to get their votes.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at approximately 4:44 pm. (Kiefer/Hinz)
Respectfully submitted,
Mark Lyons
Planning Services Manager
Plan Commission Minutes 12 November 19,2019