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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes CITY OF OSHKOSH LANDMARKS COMMISSION Minutes July 101',2019 PRESENT: Shirley Brabender Mattox, Paul Arnold, Steve Cummings, Nikki Stoll Olthoff EXCUSED: Matt Mugerauer, Elizabeth Hintz,Jeremy Galica ABSENT: None STAFF AND OTHERS: Steven Wiley, Pam Ubrig(City Clerk), Su van Houwelingen (Oshkosh Housing Authority),Lee Franzen (Oshkosh Housing Authority), Terry Laib (Laib Restoration),Julie Johnson(Co-owner Jansen's Bar and Restaurant) 1. Call to Order Chair Brabender Mattox called the meeting to order at 3:07 p.m. and a quorum was declared present. 2. Approval of June 121h,2019 Meeting Minutes Ms. Brabender Mattox asked the Commission if there were any revisions for the June meeting minutes. Ms. Brabender Mattox had a revision for Item b under Commissioner Statements. The last line of this item stated, "She thanked Ms. Stoll Olthoff and Mr. Arnold for attending the presentation." Ms. Brabender Mattox asked that the line read, "She thanked Ms. Stoll Olthoff and Mr.Arnold for their research and contribution for the Acanthus Awards and for attending the presentation." For Item f under Commissioner Statements, the fourth line read, "Mr. Arnold stated that he and his wife were at the event on June 1�t and they represented the people who had built their house in 1910." Mr. Arnold asked that staff clarify in the minutes Dr. Henry W. and Mrs. Emma Morganroth as the people who built his house. No Commissioners had any other minutes so the Commission voted 4-0 to approve the minutes with changes (Arnold/Cummings). 3. 907 Washington Avenue Tax Credit Project-Terry Laib -Discussion Mr. Laib stated that he was working on a restoration of the William Waters house at 907 Washington Avenue. He showed a copy of the historic resource survey from 1980 and explained that copies of this survey existed in the Community Development Department and at the Oshkosh Public Library. Mr.Laib explained that people could see whether the survey determined their properties as eligible for the National or State Registers. Three categories (pivotal, contributing, and non-contributing) exist for each property on the survey. The property at 907 Washington Avenue was deemed a "pivotal" structure along Washington Avenue. Mr. Laib would remove the 1940s porch and restore the porch back to what it was in the 1870s when Mr.Waters designed the property. Mr.Laib explained the architectural features of the home. He recommended that property owners visit the WHS website to find tax credit applications. He stated that work had to follow the Secretary of the Interior's standards. Mr.Laib usually started with the historic survey, and if a property he would work on was not in the survey,he assumed it was missed. He would photograph the property himself and send the photos into Madison. Ms. Johnson asked if this system worked for old businesses. Mr. Laib stated that businesses were more complicated. Mr. Laib stated that $192,000 reflected all the work the owners were doing to the house that fell within guidelines. Mr. Laib stated that he was also working on a William Waters building in Neenah and others in Oshkosh. He was booked through 2023. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that preservation was one of the best indicators of a healthy economy. She asked Mr. Laib to confirm that the front porch was coming off at 907 Washington Avenue. Mr. Laib answered affirmatively because the porch was added. He remarked that he could go up and touch the original outside corner in the porch. He explained also that he was planning to remove an addition on the rear of the property. He stated that his intent was to differentiate between his new rear addition and the original house rather than try and make it identical to the house. Mr. Laib explained that he planned to start the 907 Washington Avenue project the following week. Mr. Arnold asked Mr. Laib to thank the property owners for undertaking the work. Mr. Cummings stated that these projects required owners with significant financial abilities to undertake the work. The Commission thanked Mr.Laib for attending and sharing the proposed work. 4. Potential Mural Downtown-Action The Commission voted to discuss this item after Items 5 and 8 out of respect for the guests' time. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Mr. Wiley if there was anything to review for this item. Mr. Wiley explained that the owner of Carmel Crisp had a number of conversations with staff about a potential mural downtown but that she was undecided on what she wanted to propose. Therefore, no mural proposal was coming before the Commission at this meeting. Mr.Wiley stated that his supervisor,Acting Director Mark Lyons, had instructed him to place this item on the agenda. Mr. Wiley explained that the Commission could provide input on the installation of murals Downtown. Ms. Stoll Olthoff mentioned the provision in the mural ordinance that prohibited treatments that caused damage to historic materials and stated that the provision was vague. Mr. Cummings asked whether the owner of Carmel Crisp wanted to do a one-time thing or something permanent. Mr. Wiley stated that this was unclear. Mr. Arnold asked if she wished to do a mural on another owner's building. Mr. Wiley stated that this was correct. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she could see doing murals on boards but not directly on historic building walls. Mr. Cummings stated that 8'x4' plywood could be an option. Mr.Arnold stated that if it was possible to obtain paint similar to what was used historically, this would help with new murals. Ms.Stoll Olthoff had reservations about placing murals on downtown historic structures. Ms.Brabender Mattox stated that the job of Landmarks was to protect historic structures. She said that parachute canvas or wood panels were often used in Green Bay. Mr.Wiley asked how costly it was to use parachute canvas or panels. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that Laura Schley in Green Bay had cost estimates. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that no artists were consulted during the ordinance process. Mr. Cummings was not supportive of painting historic buildings for one-time events and stated that disposable options existed for these events. Ms.Brabender Mattox stated that she appreciated the fact that Mark Lyons was willing to let Landmarks weigh in as part of the mural process. Ms. Stoll Olthoff asked if there was a push for more murals. Mr. Wiley stated that this was correct. Mr. Cummings asked who was pushing for more murals. Mr. Wiley stated that a number of downtown business owners and the Business Improvement District wished to see more murals installed. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that she forwarded information from State Historic Preservation Architect Mark Buechel to a business owner she knew. She explained to the business owner what Mr. Buechel said about painting previously unpainted historic masonry. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that she was supportive of murals and art and that non historic walls and materials were good locations for murals. Mr. Wiley explained that one concern regarding lime wash was that few people knew what it was or how to find products or information. Ms. Stoll Olthoff suggested that staff look at Green Bay's mural ordinance and Mr. Cummings stated that Stevens Point was another example of a community that was successful with murals. The Commission asked Mr.Wiley to forward notes from this discussion to Mr. Lyons and Mr. Davis. Mr. Wiley agreed to forward the material on to senior staff. 5.Jansen's Bar(344 Bowen Street) —Julie Johnson—Discussion The Commission voted to move this item up to the Item 4 slot out of respect for Ms.Johnson's time. Ms. Johnson introduced herself and explained that she was co-owner of Jansen's Bar and Restaurant on Bowen Street. She had talked to a customer at Jansen's about grants for businesses such as hers. She explained some of the history of the business and that the business was in Mr.Wiley's family many years ago. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if one could call the building a Queen Anne example. She stated that she thought of Witzke's. Ms. Johnson stated that the earliest record of someone in her current building was from 1908. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked if Ms. Johnson has examined the Sanborn Maps. Ms. Johnson replied affirmatively. Ms. Stoll Olthoff asked when the front windows previously there were closed off. Ms.Johnson stated that she did not have photographs from between the 1940s and the 1970s. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Ms. Johnson what she was proposing to do. Ms. Johnson stated that she was not sure. Mr. Arnold stated that the cladding material looked like stone or stucco on the first floor, vinyl on the 2nd. He asked if Ms. Johnson would consider restoring the building back to its 1940s appearance. Ms. Johnson said that this was a possibility. Mr. Arnold suggested considering the impact of any potential work or restoration on business operations. He stated that Ms.Johnson could peel back a bit of vinyl siding to see what siding was beneath. He stated that removing siding would be easier for vinyl than for stucco. Ms. Stoll Olthoff asked how old the bar was. Ms.Johnson stated that the bar had a 50's feel to it and Mr. Cummings stated that the bar was not original. Mr. Cummings suggested that Ms.Johnson could check and see if there were any images from the church next door. Ms. Johnson stated that she had not yet gone into the newspaper to see if there was a record of her property being built. She stated that she wanted to check the land records at the courthouse. Ms. Brabender Mattox replied that research was important. Ms.Johnson stated that there were not many neighborhood bars left and proposed potentially landmarking her property. Ms. Brabender Mattox mentioned the WEDC pre-1936 tax credit and Mr. Wiley explained that it was his understanding that the pre-1936 tax credit was eliminated. Mr. Cummings stated that the building was likely so altered that it might not qualify for the National Register. Ms.Brabender Mattox stated that she was interested in local landmarking for the property but that the Commission also had criteria for doing so. She stated that several of the criteria the Commission had for local landmarking could apply. Mr. Wiley explained that Community Development Director Davis was working on an incentive for local landmarking. Ms. Stoll Olthoff asked if Ms. Johnson had met with Audra Hoy of GO-EDC. Ms. Johnson stated that she had and that Ms. Hoy had provided her information on the Revolving Loan Fund. Mr. Cummings stated that there were many corner bars in Oshkosh and asked the other commissioners what made this one unique. Mr. Arnold stated that the two turrets on the building contributed to the uniqueness of the property. Ms.Brabender Mattox stated that the building had characteristics of Queen Anne. Mr.Arnold stated that the dilemma was a lack of funding options for restoring the building back to its historic state. Ms. Johnson stated that she would do more research. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked Ms. Johnson to keep the Commission informed and suggested that Ms. Johnson put out a Facebook message asking for photographs. The Commission thanked Ms. Johnson for attending and she left at this point. 6. 217 High Avenue-Update Mr.Wiley explained that no progress was made at the property and that the property owner had received a citation from Inspections for the peeling paint on the property. Mr. Wiley stated that Lisa Morris had reached out to him and explained that the owner had decided against going the historic route. The owner planned to install vinyl siding and wrap up the project. Commissioners expressed their disappointment in the outcome. 7. Building Permit Review The Commissioners discussed the list of historic building permits. Mr. Wiley apologized for not including the building permits in with the packet materials. He explained that he likely saved them in a separate folder and forgot to print them when trying to get the packets out. He pulled them up on the screen and explained what work was proposed for each property. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that for 1541 N. Main Street, she followed up with the owner regarding tax credits. S. 530 N. Main Street Cell Equipment-Update/Action The Commission moved this item up to discuss after Item 5. Mr. Wiley explained that AT&T and U.S. Cellular had planned to modernize their cell equipment on the Raulf building downtown. The item came before the Landmarks Commission in April for review and action. At the time it was staff's and the Commission's understanding that a number of antennae upgrades would occur in visually prominent locations on the building. The Commission was strongly against the proposed upgrades and sent a letter on to the consultants expressing its concerns. EBI Consulting was working with AT&T on AT&T's project at the Raulf building. Since the consultant and SHPO received the letter from Landmarks, EBI staff reached out to Mr. Wiley and clarified in writing that their scope of work did not involve any changes that would be visible from the street or historic districts. All work would occur in the elevator penthouse or behind the parapet wall. With this the consultant asked Landmarks to review the clarified scope of work and consider amending the original finding. Ms. van Houwelingen stated that she was initially confused when the consultants sent the original scope of work. She explained that the cell companies rented space on the Raulf building from the Housing Authority who owned the building. The income from the cell companies was a major revenue stream. The Commission voted 4-0 to approve the clarified scope of work with the understanding that no upgrades would be visible and all work would be within the elevator penthouse and behind the parapet wall. (Arnold/Cummings) 9. Smith School -Discussion Ms.Brabender Mattox explained that she had spoken with Barb Herzog,President of the Oshkosh School Board. Ms.Brabender Mattox stated that from her conversation with Ms.Herzog,the school board could not afford to maintain schools with less than 300 students enrolled. She stated that she spoke with Ms. Herzog about the importance of Smith School as an historic school. She stated that she could see the possibility of tax credits if a developer converted the school into apartments. Mr. Arnold asked if there was anything on the original deed of note. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that she did not yet know. Mr. Arnold asked to keep Smith School on the agenda. 10. Chief Oshkosh-Steve Cummings-Discussion Mr. Cummings explained that he, Ms. Brabender Mattox,Dennis Zack from UW-Oshkosh and Mr. Wiley went up to Keshena on Monday,June 1711, and met with Menominee Indian Nation Tribal Leader Douglas Cox and Tribal Historian David Grignon. The four directions (North, South, East and West) were culturally significant and discussions had occurred regarding having four signs. The original draft for Chief Oshkosh signage went back to UW-Oshkosh where Mr. Zack and his group were working on it. Mr. Cummings stated that the Menominee Nation suggested talking with the Wisconsin Herd about potentially sponsoring signage. Ms. Stoll Olthoff noted that the current Chief Oshkosh statue did not look like Chief Oshkosh. Mr. Cummings and Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that this came up in the discussions with the Menominee Nation. It was proposed that one of the signs might have an image of Chief Oshkosh as shown in the current write-up. 11. Historic Preservation Plan-Jeremy Galica and Steven Wiley-Update Mr.Wiley explained that he had not yet had a chance to work more on the plan. Ms. Brabender Mattox proposed that before the next Landmarks meeting staff and the Commission could look at Green Bay, Racine and other area communities and set up another workshop. Ms. Brabender Mattox asked what times worked for Ms. Stoll Olthoff. Ms. Stoll Olthoff stated that any time after 2:30 pm could work. 12. Lakeshore Historic Site -Discussion Mr. Cummings proposed blocking out time to work out what Landmarks would like to see for the Lakeshore site. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that the Parks Department and consultant held a public meeting on Monday,July 8f and she attended and provided input. She stated that she had emailed several people at the Wisconsin Historical Society and wanted people to get the word of the planning process. Mr. Cummings asked if the meeting was well-attended. Mr. Wiley stated that it seemed that there were more board and commission members in attendance between the three boards providing input than audience members from the public. Mr. Cummings mentioned the Youth Council and that the planning team should seek input from teenagers and other youth. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that Chip Brown had retired from the WHS and that she expected to hear in the coming week from archeological and compliance staff. She had asked two times about Landmarks being part of the July 811,meeting. She stated that she was not sure who had the UWM Cultural Management report on the site and who knew about the report. 13. Social Media-Discussion/Action Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that Ms. Stoll Olthoff could send Mr. Wiley pictures through Facebook and he could post images from the plaque ceremony at 456 Mount Vernon. Mr. Wiley asked for any Commissioners with ideas or material to post to send these to him and he could post them. 14. Commissioner Statements a. 404 W. New York Avenue: Local Landmarking-Shirley Brabender Mattox/Rich Green Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that she would move forward with this. b. Feedback on Landmarks Website Stats-Steven Wiley Mr. Wiley shared the Landmarks website stats from the past month. He explained that the number of page views had decreased from 184 to 141 since May, the number of unique pageviews had decreased from 132 to 112,but the average time on the page had increased from 1:03 to 1:13. c. Historic Plaque Presentation-456 Mount Vernon St.-July 91h Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that Ms. Brown had a celebration of the 1501h anniversary of the Doe House and the presentation of the historic plaque. Ms. Brown had planned an open house for August 31yt to celebrate the 1501h anniversary of the house. She stated that she, Mr. Arnold, Mr. Cummings,Ms. Stoll Olthoff and Mr. Wiley were present and that Ms. Brown was thrilled with the event. d. Frontenac Building Update-Steven Wiley Mr. Wiley explained that the paperwork and images were submitted to the state and that he and the owner heard back from State Architect Mark Buechel and Mr. Buechel gave him the approval to move forward but explained the conditions that would have to be met for the project to receive the tax credits. e. 303 Washington Avenue (Corbett House) -Discussion-Steve Cummings Mr. Cummings explained that he did not have any further updates. 13. Agenda Items for Next Meeting(August 141h12019: 3 PM in City Hall Room 203) Ongoing items such as the Building Permit Review, Historic Preservation Plan, Lakeshore site and Chief Oshkosh signage would remain on the agenda. Mr. Cummings mentioned that the Winnebago County Historical Society was planning an event at the Grand for October 27th as part of the 100 year celebration of the county historical society and the idea was to focus on 21 people that were visionaries of the county. He stated that the county historical society might publish a book. 14. Adjournment Mr. Cummings made a motion to adjourn and Ms. Stoll Olthoff seconded. Meeting adjourned at 5:44 pm (4-0). Recorded by: Steven Wiley, Assistant Planner