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Oshkosh
ADVISORY ADVISORY PARK BOARD,PEDESTRIAN AND BICYCLING ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND
SUSTAINABILITY ADVISOR BOARD JOINT MEETING MINUTES
JULY 8,2019
Present: Amy Davis, Tony Dirth, Scott Greuel, Devon Hudak, Becky Metz, Bill Miller, Lester
Millette, Bob Poeschl (Advisory Park Board)
Present: Vicky Redlin, Jim Michelson, Adam BellCorelli (Pedestrian and Bicycling Advisory
Committee)
Excused: Benjamin Rennert, Jay Stengel, Brad Brown (Pedestrian and Bicycling Advisory
Committee)
Present: Margy Davey, Lurton Blassingame, Adam Maslowski, Robert Turner (Sustainability
Advisory Board)
Excused: Jake Krause, Vic Oliver, Pat Dwyer Hallquist, Eric DeGroot, Michelle Bogden Muetzel
(Sustainability Advisory Board)
Other: Nathan Hilmer, SmithGroup
Staff: Ray Maurer, Parks Director; Chad Dallman, Parks Operations Manager; Bill Sturm,
Landscape Operations Manager/Forester; Stacy James, Recording Secretary; Steven
Wiley, Recording Secretary;Alexa Naudziunas
CALL TO ORDER&ROLL CALL
Chair Davis called the meeting to order at 6:00 P.M. Roll call was taken for all boards and quorums
declared present.
1) PRESENTATION AND DISCUSSION ON LAKESHORE PARK MASTER PLAN
Mr. Maurer introduced Nathan Hilmer from SmithGroup who lead the presentation. Mr. Hilmer states
that they are now on the cusp of moving from the analysis and data gathering portion of the process
into the conceptual plan phase. Tonight's meeting was to get input from the Boards before putting
together the conceptual designs. He reviewed for the Boards the background of the project and
information received regarding the history of the property, the context of the surrounding area,
location of water and wetlands on the site, and the physical characteristics of the site. The POLCO
Survey had 420 responses which he feels is a good number given the typical responses the firm has
received in the past from other communities.
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Mr. Hilmer reviewed the meetings and other input sessions with the public as well as city staff to this
point. A lot of feedback from the public dealt with sustainability, educational components,natural
areas, a golf course, local art, wellness opportunities, trails and an outdoor space that is connected to
nature. He also reviewed the POLCO survey result data and demographics. He felt that there was a
diverse response from the community.
The public was asked in the survey how they use the parks in the area now and what they would like
to see in the new park when it is planned. Popular usage for the parks included walking/trail use and
picnicking spots. Non-popular recommendations included field use/sport activity. It was also noted
that most usage of the parks reportedly occurs in the summer months. Preferred usage for the new
park included restoration, trails, infrastructure,recreational amenities, picnicking spots and a small
event space. Preferred events included educational activities, cultural events and small scale
performances or outdoor concerts. Some common themes from both the survey and public input were
that people want to get out into nature,have passive recreation,native habitats, art displays, and
respect for the history and culture in the area.
Mr. Hilmer added that their firm wants to take into consideration the interface of this park with the
surrounding parks, public spaces and Oshkosh Corporation's site. Having an east and west section of
the park helps provide an opportunity to create spaces for different wants and needs.
Chair Davey asked the consultant what a flexible lawn was. The consultant explained that a flexible
lawn was a lawn big enough to accommodate events such as soccer,but not designated specifically for
any such event. Chair Davey asked if a flexible lawn was a flat turf area. The consultant replied
affirmatively. Chair Davey asked if the Lakeshore site was more clay-based or more sand-based. The
consultant replied that he was not sure.
Mr. Michelson explained that he finds the width of the main trail very important,he would prefer it to
be at least 12 feet wide if not 14 feet wide. He emphasized the necessity to include a comprehensive
trail network throughout the entire park area. If there are sidewalks included in the plan,it would be
best if they were 6 feet wide. Mr. Michelson asked if the existing infrastructure for drainage in the golf
course is still intact and Mr. Maurer explained that he suspects that is it not fully operational anymore.
Mr. Poeschl inquired about a better definition of the interpretive nodes that are discussed to be in the
park. Mr. Hilmer states that there were lots of comments regarding recognizing the Native American
history at the site. These would be locations along the trails that would provide kiosks with messages
or something more abstract the honor the history at the location. Mr. Maurer added that the land
jutting out into the water would be good points for information center or these interpretive nodes.
Mr. BellCorelli explained that this new park is an opportunity to highlight connections to the city wide
network of bike lanes and trails. If not having enough parking is a concern, a possible intervention
could be to make an effort to educate users on alternative ways of accessing the park. If there is
parking on the other side of the Tribal Heritage Trail bikers and joggers should utilize this if they are
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running or bike through the new park. Another thing to help with parking would be to highlight
transit stations and use drop off zones for short term parking. He also stated that entrance statements
for the trail heads within the park should be highlighted.
Mr. Turner asked if some of the oldest ponds were springs and if they fulfilled some sort of function or
if they could be filled in. He asked if anyone thought of constructing a bridge across the watery area on
the west side of the site so people could look down. Mr. Turner stated that the site seemed to present
an opportunity for this. Mr. Maurer stated that this was the type of input staff and the consultant were
looking for. The bridge could potentially be a glass bridge.
Mr. Poeschl inquired as to whether there was the possibility of restoring the one body of water that had
flowed through the park in 1937 as a natural component to the park. Mr. Hilmer responded that it
would be dependent upon the phasing of the projects in the park and would gain more attraction if
part of a larger scale infrastructure throughout the park. Mr. Maurer added that the ponds on the east
side of the park are needed for storm water retention. Staff would have to work with the engineers
regarding any changes that would be made.
Chair Davey stated that the SAB's concerns could be summed up in three categories: restoration,
minimization, and mitigation. For restoration,there was an opportunity to plant the shoreline for
shoreline restoration. For minimization, Chair Davey emphasized minimizing hard surfaces as much
as possible and recommended looking at alternative transportation. For mitigation, she recommended
providing adequate areas for runoff and exploring pervious surfaces while creating bike paths and
parking areas. She stated that she was very impressed with everything presented so far.
Mr. Blassingame explained that sustainability was all about the future. The city would grow in
population and use of the Lakeshore Park would increase. Mr. Blassingame stated that uses such as
pickleball for example,might not have enjoyed popularity 10 years ago but could become very popular
in 10 years. Mr. Blassingame recommended that the planning team consider changing interests and
allow for these.
Chair Davey stated that the Polco responses were encouraging and that 51% of respondents were
younger. She explained that the Lakeshore Park would last a long time (perhaps 100 years). She stated
that the Menominee Park was an example of a park that was around for a long time. She
recommended that the planning team consider installing charging stations for electric vehicles if they
were going to propose infrastructure in the park.
Mr. Maslowski mentioned native plantings and asked if there was a certain percentage the planning
team was going for.
Mr. Poeschl stated that taking advantage of the duality of the park to have the west side be for natural
habitat and the east side for community use could be an option due to the proximity of the
neighborhood in that area. Mr. Hilmer added that this wouldn't be the only option. If there is a larger
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gathering space it might actually be best to have it on the west side because of the neighborhood. It
would depend upon what kind of infrastructure is decided upon and the sizing of any shelter or event
space that would be used.
Mr. Poeschl inquired how conducive the development along Oshkosh Avenue would be to the park
and what types of development might support the area. If we focus on connections between those
developments and the park,making this a destination park could bring in more development than
what is already being created in the area.
Mr. Miller states that the city hasn't built a large shelter in quite some time but there is a desperate need
for another one and this site could be a good location for a year round shelter. Mr. Maurer added that
with the existing utilities at the maintenance building site their department is pushing for a year round
shelter at that location. There have been multiple requests from citizens to be able to rent a shelter year
round. It could be a multi-use shelter that would also provide public restrooms for the surround park
area. Mr. Miller added that it might also be beneficial to have smaller shelters throughout the park as
well.
Mr. Dirth commented that there are a lot of business along Oshkosh Avenue with parking in the back
of the building and he doesn't want to see park users taking up their parking so that needs to be
addressed. Mr. Hilmer responded that a small satellite lot for trailhead parking on the west side of the
park would be a good solution to alleviate this concern. The parking lot counts would be driven by the
programming of the park. If there is a large shelter there would need to be parking nearby.
Mr. Dirth further added that it is easy to think of the parks as a summer destination because there
aren't a lot of users in the parks during the winter at this time. However, if the park is designed to
facilitate winter usage it is likely that you would see more patrons in the winter months. He also
encouraged there to be natural landscapes and playgrounds in the concept plan as well as paths
throughout the park that are more meandering and multi-use for patrons. Mr. Hilmer states that the
natural play idea is popular especially in bigger cities and would be a good fit for this area. It also
reinforces the duality of the park.
Ms. Redlin expressed a need for trailhead parking near 2 Brothers since she has met with this business
owner in the past. They have struggled with non-customers using their parking lot to access the
former golf course. Ms. Redlin detailed the complexity of the Tribal Heritage Trail since it is owned by
the WisDOT the approval process for connecting to the trail will be lengthy. She wanted to make it
clear that the main trail along the water's edge is not just for recreation. Commuters will need a direct
route and she isn't convinced that the trail along the waters is the most direct route. She also suggests a
link to Westfield from the Tribal Heritage Trail would be important as a more direct route for a
transportation artery.
Mr. Turner asked if anyone had considered the acoustic signature of the highway. He explained that
the west side of the site was adjacent to I-41 and that the highway puts out a considerable amount of
JOINT MEETING MINUTES PAGE FIVE JULY 8,2019
decibels. He explained that he lived two miles from the highway and that the noise was still audible.
The consultant agreed that the highway noise was an important consideration. Mr. Hilmer stated that
when their staff had walked the site they did notice the noise differences based on the different
elevations. He feels that earth work would be an important component of the park for sound barriers. It
could also be used to create an iconic park. Mr. Turner proposed a signature piece such as a large city
logo on top of a hill,maybe 40 feet in diameter. Mr. Turner stated that the signature piece or sculpture
on the west side of the site could make an acoustic barrier. Mr. Hilmer added that the public art could
also provide lighting for the area.
Mr. Michelson stated that the site is a good site for a public beach or fishing pier. The trails would be
heavily used year round and he would not want any natural plantings to block the water. He also
added that he would like the trails to be plowed year round and they should be constructed using a
solid, durable material.
Mr. Blassingame mentioned cross-country skiing, and that it was an example of an activity he loved to
do. Though this was the case,he did not have a chance to cross country ski once two years ago, and in
the last year he had been out three times. He explained that for some activities such as this, people
enjoyed them but often might not have opportunities to do them. He encouraged the planning team to
keep this in mind when prioritizing for different activities.
Mr. Miller stated that with regards to the trails in the park,maintenance time and costs are important to
keep in mind. The city has a hard time keeping up with the properties they have so if the park is easy
to maintain that makes it more feasible to keep it maintained properly. Mr. Maurer added that
SmithGroup will be providing maintenance costs with the different concept designs as well.
At this point the meeting was opened up for public comment.
Karen Hartley, 1711 Punhoqua St., Oshkosh, states that she has been a long time resident of the area.
She watched the park when the ponds were connected and it was a real drainage issue for the
neighborhood. When the golf course was redesigned that took away the problem and there was proper
damage. She is concerned that if there is any earth movement it could recreate that drainage problem.
She also sees a lot of wildlife in the ponds and feels that they should not be disturbed. Ms. Hartley also
states that at the end of Punhoqua Street there is not currently any accommodations for small
watercraft use. The area is heavily used by small watercraft and kayaks. She also feels that powerboats
that come through the area are causing damage to the shoreline and that issue should be addressed.
Paulette Feld,416 W 5f Ave, Oshkosh, states that she believes there should be a no-wake ordinance
throughout the entire city. With regards to winter use in the parks, she has previously used the golf
course for snowshoeing. The western part of the park is a good location for a natural area and winter
use activities that would require little to no maintenance. A trailhead parking lot on that side of the
park would be helpful as well. She states that she has tried snowshoeing Menominee Park but there are
so many trails and streets that she has to cross and it becomes cumbersome. She feels the trail along the
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Riverwalk should be cleared but the remainder of the park left natural for winter use. Also, adding
topography to the park and trails would be beneficial.
Shirley Brabender Mattox (Landmarks Commission), 1313 Jackson Street, Oshkosh, weighed in during
the public comment section. She stated that the community had a chance to develop Lakeshore as the
second largest park in the city. She became aware of the archeological site on the property and asked
Mr. Maurer and the consultant if they had received the archeology report from UWM. Mr. Maurer and
the consultant replied affirmatively. Ms. Brabender Mattox stated that a small portion of the Lakeshore
site was potentially eligible for the National and State Registers of Historic Places. She explained that
she had contacted Peggy Veregin at the Wisconsin Historical Society and was waiting to hear back. She
asked if Smith Group had dealt with historic sites similar to this before. The consultant replied that yes
they had and that they did have similar scenarios in the past. Ms. Brabender Mattox explained that
Lakeshore provided an exciting opportunity for education for children. There were 8,000 years of
history and she stated that she was hoping that Smith Group would wait to hear from the compliance
staff at the Wisconsin Historical Society. She finished by emphasizing that the Lakeshore site was a
great opportunity for the community.
Bruce Sager, 1703 Punhoqua Street, Oshkosh,brought up the concern that there is no public parking on
the west side of the park. He agrees that nodes along the walkways would be important so that people
who want to continue to move along are able to,but it would provide those that want to stop and view
the information the opportunity to do so without hindering other users. He also states that he doesn't
feel the Riverwalk is marked very well. He had family in town recently that wanted to run the
Riverwalk but there are many parts along the way that it is unclear where the trail continues and feels
there should be better signage. With regards to art work being in the park and seen from the highway
he feels that fountains with lights in the ponds would be a good option. Regarding the maintenance of
the park he commented that the fairways on the old course should be able to be mowed and
maintained since they were designed to stay dry. Mr. Sager voiced concerns about a year round shelter
and that taking up the greenspace but did agree that if there was a charge to use the space it could
bring in revenue for the park and provide for maintenance in the park. He does feel that smaller
shelters throughout the park would be good to provide for some shade however.
Stephen Hoopman, 5105 I-Ah-Maytah Road, Oshkosh, stated that parking would be a concern once
development happens. If there is not ample parking patrons will use developer's parking lots and that
is not appropriate. A parking lot along the highway would provide a buffer and is a good idea to also
give access to that side of the park. He feels that having the parking available is important to getting
people to the park.
Chair Davey brought up a couple points. She stated that the kayak launch area Downtown suffered
from the strong wakes generated by the power boats. She stated that the strong wakes were legitimate
concerns and that discussion regarding wakes came before the SAB in the past. The SAB was told in
earlier discussions that the DNR and Winnebago County had jurisdiction over the waterway and that
the issue was complex. She proposed the Council putting this item on their agenda for discussion. She
JOINT MEETING MINUTES PAGE SEVEN JULY 8,2019
explained that the SAB could support a kayak or canoe launch but that a power boat launch already
existed in Rainbow Park. Mr. Maurer agreed that a new launch in Lakeshore would not be for power
boats. The second issue Chair Davey brought up was that the street rights-of-way in the area already
took up much area at the site and she would recommend limiting parking and encouraging alternative
transportation for the area.
Al Repp, 1506 Repp Avenue, Oshkosh, states that he was born and raised in Oshkosh and has seen and
helped out with many projects in the area. He also states that there is not parking available and that
needs to be addressed. There is also not much road parking available so to have a lot of parks in the
area without any kind of sufficient parking causes a large problem. Green space is important,but so is
available parking for patrons to use the green space.
Mr. Poeschl agreed that as much as nobody wants to see slabs of parking lots, they are a necessity.
Keeping them along the outside of the park with trails to the remaining areas is a good option. Mr.
Maurer added that there has been internal discussions regarding parking where the Rath Building
currently is near the hotel and Mr. Poeschl agreed that would be a natural spot to place a lot. Mr.
Hilmer also added that the Riverwalk trail would meet up with the Tribal Heritage Trail along the
riverfront and a parking lot near the Rath Building with a connecting trail to the trail head would be a
good solution.
Mr. Poeschl added that a historical restoration site is an important element since the public is
specifically asking for it to be supported. He feels there is an educational component that would be
relevant to people of all ages.
Mr. Hilmer thanked everyone for their time and input regarding the Lakeshore Master Plan. At this
point in the meeting the Pedestrian and Bicycling Advisory Committee and Sustainability Advisory
Board were adjourned.
2) ADVISORY PARK BOARD-Recommend amendment to Chapter 19 Section 19-4(T)
defining Bowen Street Fishing Dock Park
Mr.Maurer states that before the Bowen Street Fishing Dock was reconstructed the dock came directly off the
curb.Now that the reconstruction has been completed there is a greenspace to the west side of the dock.In the
past the neighbors in the area worked with the city to get the park hours of the Fishing Dock to be moved back to
10pm.With this new green space there are some park patrons who are stating there is a loophole in the definition
and that the 10pm closing time does not apply to the green space.The neighbors are again stepping up to ask the
city to define the green space as part of the Bowen Street Fishing Dock so that it is included in the 10pm curfew.
Mr.Dirth inquired about the shoreline to the east of the Fishing Dock and Mr.Maurer states that this is private
property.Mr.Miller inquired if there was signage to make the park hours clear and whether there was parking
along Bowen Street.Mr.Maurer answered that there is signage there now and if the green space is approved to
be included in the park location then the sign would be moved.Parking was a big discussion at the time of the
reconstruction of the road.There is currently no parking on the left side of the road and limited parking on the
east side of the road.There is no parking permitted in the cul-de-sac.
JOINT MEETING MINUTES PAGE EIGHT JULY 8,2019
Motion by Dirth to recommend amendment to Chapter 19 Section 19-4(7) defining Bowen Street
Fishing Dock Park to include the green space. Seconded by Millette. Motion carried 8-0.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Maurer advised that the concept designs for the Little Oshkosh playground replacement has been
narrowed down to five options. There were 8 vendors total that put in bids for the project. The public
can vote on their preferred concept online through the POLCO survey site through the end of this week.
There will also be voting at the Tuesday Night Concert Series at the Leach Amphitheater at their first
concert on July 9.
Mr. Miller states that he has received a lot of positive comments from the public regarding the newly
replaced play equipment at Stoegbauer Park.
ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Miller for adjournment;seconded by Poeschl. Motion carried 8-0.
The meeting adjourned at 8:04 P.M
Respectfully submitted,
Stacy L.James
Stacy L. James, Recording Secretary